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Post by Kuro93 on Dec 23, 2012 15:12:26 GMT
It seems that constant removal and replacing of the mekugi, habaki and other components would eventually get looser and looser? and eventually be loose and rattly? is this true or will the mekugi and habaki not get like this? thanks guys
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Post by Kumdoalan on Dec 23, 2012 15:36:11 GMT
I have heard that some guys who really have to bang their China-made swords off with a handle do notice it never goes back on as nice and tight.
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Post by Kuro93 on Dec 23, 2012 15:45:58 GMT
yeah i can imagine that cheap swords would never re-assemble as good as it came apart, have you taken apart and put back together a katana?
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Post by Kumdoalan on Dec 23, 2012 15:52:55 GMT
I think every sword owner has taken one of his swords apart to check out what that is like. For many swords the amount of work that can turn into might scare a guy off doing that again!
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Post by Kuro93 on Dec 23, 2012 15:57:36 GMT
I can imagine haha, how often do sword owners disassemble their blades to inspect them? just for a rough idea? thanks
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Post by Kumdoalan on Dec 23, 2012 16:09:31 GMT
I imagine the answer to that depends on how well the handle was made to come off without damage? a lot of China-made swords have one-size-fits-all handles and so the person who is building the handle in China just gets it all lined up and smacks everything together with a hammer. I saw one of Paul's videos showing this* and my guess is that the final person who gets that sword will likely destroy something in any attempt to remove the handle later. * at around the 4:20 point of the video ... e=youtu.be
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Post by Kuro93 on Dec 23, 2012 16:36:05 GMT
Okay thanks a lot for your help
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Post by chrisperoni on Dec 23, 2012 17:49:23 GMT
it does over time and happens more easily with mass produced swords- as already mentioned above.
Even antique swords show shimming and extra seppa added to tighten things up.
A couple of sword customizers I've talked with recommend that any sword which does not have the tsuka made individually for it's blade is actually better off having the assembly permanently epoxied together. I did this with my edc katana- glued the fuchi and kashira tothe tsuka, glued the mekugi in place and nakago to the tsuka - overall it's much more sturdy and a worthwhile tradeoff for no longer being able to take it apart.
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Post by Rafael on Dec 24, 2012 14:25:25 GMT
What's specific brand and type of epoxy did you use Chris?
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Post by Kuro93 on Dec 25, 2012 16:11:05 GMT
I haven't epoxied my blade, you can't disassemble your blade if its epoxied?
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Post by Maynar on Dec 25, 2012 16:26:50 GMT
Correct. It's a one-way procedure, no going back. I haven't felt the need to go to such drastic lengths, myself. If you buy from a vendor, they can re&re a handle better than I can. I buy mostly from koa and they are happy to remove and inspect the tsuka of any sword I buy, before they ship. You have to ask specifically, and it's an extra $10, but money well spent to be assured no cracks in the handle exist. Once assured of that fact, I have no further need for disassembly, except if I need a new ito wrap. In that case I ship the entire sword to whomever is doing the wrap and let them deal with the question of removing the tsuka.
Cheers
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Post by Kuro93 on Dec 25, 2012 17:11:02 GMT
Thanks for your info, I will check out kult of athena
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Post by chrisperoni on Dec 26, 2012 4:16:10 GMT
Can't remember- I buy whatever is on sale- usually some 5 minute variety.
Nope- no taking it apart once this is done.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2012 4:44:26 GMT
You shouldn't need to take apart your katana very often at all, and you shoul;d only do so if there's a good reason to do it. If it's properly made, disassembly won't weaken it, but constantly pulling it apart and putting it back together will wear out parts and loosen the fit eventually, and you'll need to shim things up to tighten them.
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Post by ineffableone on Dec 26, 2012 6:39:57 GMT
Pretty much what I was going to say.
While I would suggest you take apart any new katana to inspect it properly, you should not need to take it apart very often. Over time you might need to replace your mekugi pegs as they will wear out due to normal wear and tear and every removal wears on them a little.
I would not recommend epoxying your tsuka to the nakago, unless you want a permanently attached tsuka. If you feel you really need a well attached tsuka either make your own, or commission a new one made from Cottontail Customs. Then you would have a nice custom fit tsuka that you would not need to worry about.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2012 6:44:29 GMT
In line with ineff's comments, I was going to suggest carving a new tsuka, to get all the tinkering out of your system, that way you'll have a perfectly fitting new tsuka too, then you can put some rayskin panels on it and learn to re-wrap it, and by that stage you'll be completely over dismantling your sword! :lol:
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Post by zentesukenVII on Dec 26, 2012 7:53:13 GMT
I ALWAYS take a part a new Japanese sword when I first get it. You should know if there are any flaws. (i.e cracked tsuka core, loose nakago fit etc.)
Heres my philosophy:
After moderate use, clean blade with mothers mag, oil, wipe dry, return to the rack. I'd only advise you disassemble your sword if you put your sword through some abuse or if you think moisture may have gotten under the habaki, and therefore into your tsuka construction.
So after intense use, or a long period of storage, carefully take apart the sword, thoroughly clean the blade (and fittings if you like, I try and keep my habaki and seppa shiny). Do not oil or clean the nakago as it will ruin the fit with the tsuka. Clean the inside of the habaki and apply oil to the section where the habaki sits on the blade. This will keep moisture from getting into your tsuka, and keep it from rusting your blade. This is why I think it is paramount to have a good habaki fit.
Taking a sword apart over and over again will weaken the parts over time imo. However, lack of maintenance will do that a lot faster. Make sure you remember to do everything you want to do when you take it apart so you don't have to take it apart AGAIN.
Hope it helps, any questions are welcome.
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Dec 26, 2012 12:56:23 GMT
Hi. If I may chime in, there is a way to epoxy the tsuka and stiil have the option to remove it. This helps also with splitting of the tsuka, small cracks repair and loose tsuka as most of the wood I encountered on Chinese made swords, be they katana or Jian, is not properly dried before use in the factory. For instance I have a Jian with lots of bronze fittings that where tight when I got the sword and are now easely removed because the wood is starting to dry. The same with saya and tsuka. My solution is to take the tsuka off using a good hairdryer to weaken the glue with heat. I found that many wooden parts on new swords, katana or otherwise and even fittings, are glued with a compound resembling something like the sillicon stuff one uses to fix glass in a window frame. It is a little bit flexible and semi translucent, greyish of colour. Epoxy when mixed well will turn very hard and I never encounterd that. Always this funky glue. Now, when the tsuka is removed one has to get all of this glue out of the tsuka and of the tang. Make sure to file off any small bumps and bits on the tang that will prevent later grip removal. Make the metal smooth. Clean the tang with acetone, nailpolish remover or what ever compound that removes grease, dirt and other debris. Get MOLD WAX or MOLD LOOSENING WAX. This stuff is made to get molds off new bronze casts so the molds can be used again. Acording to the description on my tin of wax, you put the wax on the tang, very thinly. I use a small brush for this so the wax goes everywhere and no spots are missed. Let it sit for a while, than repeat. Three layers should do. In the mean time one mixes the epoxy and tops up the epoxy with an epoxy filler. This is a very fine, dust like stuff which bonds with and thickens the epoxy somewhat to a jelly like state, so it does not all get sucked into the wood. It will bind with the wood and still will make a very strong bond with the wood but not disappear for the most part. Close the mekugi holes in the tang with some hard wax, these plugs will not bond with the epoxy and are easely removed. Close any holes for that matter. Put on your plastic gloves. Be sure to tape off any metal parts and moldwax any metal parts that could come into contact with the epoxy beforehand. Pour enough epoxy into the tsuka so some of it will come out when you shove it on the tang with all metall parts in place of course. Make sure everything is as tight as possible and the mekugi holes are lined up with the holes in the tang and tape the whole assembly together so nothing moves. It will be a little messy with the epoxy residue coming out of the little openings here and there, but just leave it, tape it to the sword and hang the whole packed upside down, with the tsuka downward that is, with a piece of string from the cieling or whatever, somewhere where you do not walk into it and the epoxy can set undisturbed. Normally epoxy sets in about 8 hours, this is dependent on temperature and humidity. After some time check to see whether the epoxy is starting to set. This is where the excess on the outside comes in handy. After setting, I leave it for a night at a dry and warm place, carefuly start to clean off and then tap off the tsuka. After removing the moldwax from the tang, it will now fit like a glove and be a lot stronger than before. I repeat that extra care must be taken to smooth out the tang. Any dents will get filled with epoxy and so make it difficult to remove the tsuka later on. Excessive dents or small holes in the tang can be filled with automotive metal filler, which later on can be removed again. I find this procedure works for me, but then I like to do these little jobs. Cheers, Ulahn.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2012 23:32:27 GMT
Agreeing with most of what has already been written, I'll just add this: If you buy a cheap sword, there is good reason to take it apart. Be warned - you may find some funky sh- stuff inside. 3 of 4 cheap blades I have dis-assembled have had the tsuka tightened by shoving a small length of ito wrap into the hole! Ridiculous, I know...but it happens. The reason is (as others already stated) the mass produced nature of the parts for cheap blades. Heck, one of the blades even had the mekugi holes drilled thru the stuffed ito piece! Anyway, learning how to shim/tighten the fittings on your blade is good knowledge to have, and the need to know if the blade is safe is paramount.
Once you get a cheap blade back together, I can't see taking it apart again, unless something drastic has happened, or you are using it for demonstrations.
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Post by zentesukenVII on Jan 3, 2013 4:18:18 GMT
I love the word "paramount".
That is all.
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