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Post by xdskiller on Jul 18, 2013 11:24:47 GMT
I've been swinging swords for a long time. I know a piece of crap when I hold it. I've disassembled my sword and inspected it quite thoroughly. The blade, although not the best polish job in the world, is perfect. It is straight as a laser beam, sharp as a razor after just the slightest deburring, and is still just as sharp after I cut the holy crap out of all kinds of tree limbs and vines in the backyard. The tsuka is not cracked, and the geometry is the best I've ever felt. It is nice and slim like a 1911 with slim grips. It's not "baseball bat-ish" like some others I've held in the price range. (yeah dude, I've checked out others...surprise) The fuchi and kashira both fit tightly. The ito is as tight as a dolphins butthole, and the menuki don't budge a bit. The Mekugi are tight but not too tight, and nothing rattles. Now, the habaki and seppa have machining marks on them (nothing major), so I polished them a bit with some 600 to 800 to brasso. Took about 5 minutes, and they shine just fine. It honestly sounds to me like this dude didn't do enough research on what he was buying before he bought it, and therefore expected something he didn't buy. I read his correspondence with Mr. Chen, and wholly agree with Mr. Chen. If I owned Cheness, I would have said the exact same things. Why should he pay for what the shippers bent? Why should he be scolded for sending a sword just as sharp as he promised? MAYBE he could have sucked up the $10 to ship dude a new seppa, but ugly or not...it was doing it's job. If I have something to say, you can be DAMN sure that I'll say it. It would also be kind of you to not assume any more things about me, let alone try to tell what to say and not say to anyone. Thanks.[/quote]
First of all I don't own a cheness, and I'll have to side against you donnie on this. First of all, how come other swords come sharp as a razor out of the box? What if the op doesn't have the materials or expertise? And although not too relevant, at the 200-300 dollar area, most swords now have alternating ito. A couple years ago most production katana didn't, but now if you know where to look they do. Something that shippers bent, we all know that shipping companies aren't that gentle with our mail, but the problem can be easily and cheaply solved by using some Styrofoam. The shipping policy is a bit effy and the tsuba might have been bent before it was shipped. From what I heard, a sharp cheness would nearly be dull enough to be my iaito. For the seppa, from what I read, obviously it's damaged. Cheness may not supply art swords, but this can only go to a certain extent. If Ronin or or sbg was selling this katana, it would probably be a factory second. I think what we're trying to say is that cheness is outdated and overpriced compared to the rest of the market.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2013 12:20:19 GMT
A bit of perspective here, the fact that Cheness has quality control issues doesn't mean that every Cheness sword has problems! It means only some do...
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Post by shoboshi on Jul 18, 2013 12:53:26 GMT
Donnie, as a new member that has made no statements about your qualifications and given some of the questions you've asked, and the excitement you've shown over your tenchi, it seems pretty natural to assume you don't have that much experience with swords. OUR BAD. Sorry.
I do have to wonder though, if you are that impressed with your tenchi, what your other swords are.
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Post by MadDogDonnieReed on Jul 18, 2013 16:05:56 GMT
I get what many people are saying, and it feels like an anti-Cheness hate group in here. I am a Cheness customer, and I am COMPLETELY satisfied with the company and it's product.... and I have every right to say do. By their own admission, several people that have never owned or held a Cheness sword are in here telling people how much they suck. I offer the perspective of an actual customer. Not a forum ninja riding the bandwagon.
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Post by MadDogDonnieReed on Jul 18, 2013 16:25:04 GMT
Shoboshi, when I say this, I don't mean it to be threatening in any way. I mean it to be informative. My father taught me a valuable lesson when I was a child. Don't mess with somebody if you don't know who you're messing with. That's not to insinuate that I'm that guy, or that they're will be consequences for your actions. It's just a valuable life lesson that you should consider before engaging someone you don't know. Also, you have had nothing but negative things to say to me since I got here. Maybe that's because I'm the new guy and you in fact don't know me at all. In the interest of friendship and peace, let me tell you a little bit about myself. My name is Donnie Reed. I live in Pittsburgh, and make money by playing music and fixing motorcycles. I was a United States Marine, and have been studying martial arts ( including weapons training) since I was a little kid. I was given my first pair of nunchaku and abokken by my neighbor ( who was a Green Beret) when I was about 10 years old. I'm 35 now, and my practice of the deadly arts has never ceased to this day. I have trained with many teachers from many disciplines, and plan to continue to do so until my death. I believe that every person should be at least part warrior..... and the bigger the part, the better. I am single with no kids, and I LOVES me some womens! Now that you know me a little better, I would hope that our future correspondence can be of a more positive nature.
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Post by johnwalter on Jul 18, 2013 16:26:40 GMT
Donnie,my apologies.Weve had so many new members lately asking the same questions I get them confused and you have asked some that most people who have owned swords already know.No big deal tho,my apology is made sincerely,accept it or not. My problem was with one comment"If Cheness swords used to be better than they are now,then whoever got the old ones got a sword worth twice as much".You dont know,its your opinion,stated as fact.This gives the wrong impression to new sword buyers,like outdated reviews.If you like it,thats great,happy forya dude.But the FACTS are there are much better products available than Cheness. As for ego,I think people here know thats not the case.I take my membership herw very seriously.If have an experienced opinion that relates to the subject I give it,if not,I dont. I said what I said because your statement as stated is a little misleading,if you have no experience with previous Cheness swords,thats all dude.
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Post by shoboshi on Jul 18, 2013 16:38:13 GMT
NO. Not a cheness hate group. I still own my tenchi. It's the sword I give to friends that have never cut before because I know it can take the bad cuts and I'm not going to lose a wink of sleep if they damage or somehow manage to break it.
The thing is that these topics come up every few months. And it is the same old topics over and over. I jump in because my opinion of cheness is based on first hand experience with 5 of them. I am taking a small leap and assuming that every one else works just as hard for their money as I do for mine and when buying toys like swords they want as much value for that hard earned money as they can get. And I feel there is better value elsewhere.
That does not mean cheness makes bad swords. The simple truth is that cheness has sat still and kept producing the same old thing (there is not an old model) while other manufacturers have moved on and improved their offerings and thus are better options.
If your measure of a great sword is that it is tough, then cheness is at the top of the heap. But most agree there is more to it than simply being nearly indestructible.
And we do need to hear the good with the bad. The idea is to inform so that potential buyers who don't have any first hand experience can make a better decision.
I respectfully request that you do a review and tell us why you are so impressed with this sword.
I see you have posted again since I have been writing this.
To clarify, I urge you to specify where I have said anything negative about 'you' personally. I have disagreed with your opinion on cheness and stated my reasons for doing so, but I haven't personally attacked you. If you feel that way, my apologies, but please point out my transgression so I can look at it and try to understand why you feel that way.
I'm also a member Uncle Sam's Misguided Children. Congratulations. I tend to agree with your philosophies, but that doesn't help us understand where your opinions of this sword come from.
I'm not messing with you, I'm trying to inform you and anyone else reading. That's all.
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Jul 18, 2013 16:39:40 GMT
It's nice to hear that you are satisfied with your sword Donnie. And you are right you have the right to say it.
Forums are about opinions & discussion, and so it's good to see that you had great experince with Cheness. One of the reasons there is a lot of talk about Cheness is because it's a popular company, that has soon been operating for 10 years. And I like to read how differing the experiences are.
We are all biased in one way or another due to things we've seen, read, experienced etc. That is why I can say I'm negatively biased against Cheness, as I've watched the company from the beginning. There are things you can see straight from the pictures and by reading user experiences.
I have no dog in the fight, and I'm happy that people are happy with whatever sword they purchase. If I'm starting to see something I like in Cheness products I could very well give them a go. Unfortunately I haven't seen them improving much, while rest of the production sword market has gone a good bit forward.
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Post by MadDogDonnieReed on Jul 18, 2013 16:57:01 GMT
Hoooooorah, Marine! Semper Fi You have not attacked me in any way. You've just been a bit negative. I asked about traditional sharpening methods, and all you had to say was, "You're gonna mess it up!" Not an exact quote, but it's what you said. Then there's the Cheness thing here. It's no biggy, and I'm not butthurt about it. I'm just saying that I'd like to see our future correspondence grow to become more positive in nature.
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Post by MadDogDonnieReed on Jul 18, 2013 17:07:59 GMT
Right on, Jussi! My advice would be that if you want pretty, look elsewhere...but if you want tough, then TH 9260 is a hell of a blade for the money. I would recommend Cheness TH blades to anyone looking for a tough sword. I bent mine to 90 degrees, and it sprung right back to straight with no damage (ripples or set) to be found. I sharpened mine a bit (it was sharp enough to cut with out of the box, but not paper cutting sharp) and then hacked the holy hell out of tree limbs and vines in the backyard, and the edge was undamaged and not rolled. Like I said, though, the seppa and habaki were rough looking when I got it, and the polish on the blade was not perfect. These are purely aesthetic concerns, but that is something to consider if you plan on displaying your sword. I believe I am so satisfied because I specifically wanted tough, and that's exactly what I got. I like your attitude, and hope that this information serves you well.
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Post by shoboshi on Jul 18, 2013 17:18:38 GMT
Do or die, brother! I also would like for our conversations to be more positive. Unfortunately, I'm simply on other side of the cheness fence than you and that can make things difficult. No offense is intended, but passionate opinions abound hereabouts. BTW, I don't recall offering any comments on sharpening. You may be mistaking me for some other handsome devil with a big mouth. Carry on.
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Post by MadDogDonnieReed on Jul 18, 2013 17:20:21 GMT
Carry on...AYE Sir!
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Post by shoboshi on Jul 18, 2013 17:21:53 GMT
I think we are in a good place now.
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Post by MadDogDonnieReed on Jul 18, 2013 17:24:46 GMT
Precisely where I wanted to be.
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Post by johnwalter on Jul 18, 2013 19:49:47 GMT
And thank you for your service!
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Post by frankthebunny on Jul 18, 2013 20:45:30 GMT
I have never owned or cut with a Cheness katana but I have worked on one (or two) in the past. I also have a decent amount of experience in the world of production katana having had the opportunity to closely inspect swords from many different manufacturers while going deep under the hood so to speak.
It is often said here that if you have not personally owned a particular sword from a particular maker, your opinion isn't really valid on the subject but I disagree to a point. Having learned so much about similar swords has given me general, while still valuable knowledge about the Chinese made production sword. This of course doesn't mean that just because I know say three types intimately (or 10), that I know all types just as well but I believe I do have something to base my opinions on.
There are many times you need to use your experiences with products you are familiar with to assess the value of products that are new to you even when you don't have them in hand. I might not be able to tell you everything about a certain katana being sold on ebay when I've never owned one but by looking at pictures and reading the description and features, I would be confident that my assumption would be pretty close to the mark. Again, I'm not saying that I've seen one so I've seen them all but I have seen a lot and I know I'd be able to make more than just a good guess.
While I've never owned or cut with a Cheness sword, I have handled/worked on one and I have read many threads and reviews pertaining to them and together with my knowledge of many many similar swords over the years, I feel I am entitled to an opinion. With my experience I would trust my own opinion on a sword I've never owned over that of a novice (not pointing to anyone here) who has just received their very first katana.
I guess I'm just saying that experience in a field does count for something.
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Post by MadDogDonnieReed on Jul 19, 2013 4:10:04 GMT
Right on, man!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2013 4:42:54 GMT
Donnie, sounds like you like swords for the reasons I do, pure functionality. Personally I don't give a rat's a## about pretty fitting unless I'm building something for display. A real tool is functional first and foremost, durable and reliable. Just like any standard issue military weapon!
People just need to remember that for a warrior/martial artist the most important thing is function, to a collector its some kind of aesthetic or sentimental thing, to a historian the story, each to their own.
Good to have a diversity of opinions and preferences. Welcome on-board Donnie!
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Post by MadDogDonnieReed on Jul 19, 2013 5:55:38 GMT
Thanks, Blackthorn! I couldn't agree more. I'm really digging the forum, and everyone I've met so far. Disagreement is bound to happen, but it's the nature of social interaction for that to happen. This place is a wealth of knowledge, and I'm glad to be a part of it. Disagreements and all.
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Post by Ulvbane on Aug 14, 2013 8:34:25 GMT
I did look up what I was ordering, closely enough to notice the seppa. Ugly or not is not the point here. I expected what I ordered and I did not get that, period. Small issue, I agree, but several small issues and then it is not so small anymore. As for expectations, I expected the sword to be as described and undamaged. No unrealistic expectations I think. Sharpness is difficult to describe, as far as I recalled it was only described as "for tameshigiri" on the Cheness site. So maybe my expectations was a bit off there, I don’t know. But most people seems to think that "for tameshigiri" should mean that the sword is sharp enough to cut. The sword I got was not sharp enough to cut anything if using it as a knife, that is, to cut. I could slide my thumb over the edge and not get hurt. It would chop of course, an axe does almost not have to be sharp at all. If I had chosen how to pack the sword, the shipping company, the shipping service level and paid, then I would agree that any issues with the shipping would be between me and the shipping company. As it is I did none of that and it was not an option. Shipping was part of the purchase, therefore it is part of what I bought from Cheness and therefore they should take responsibility for any shipping issues. Anything else is outrageous and ridiculous. Also, because Cheness handled all the shipping I am not a customer to the shipping company, so I can not raise any concerns with them. So there is no way for me to be compensated. Extremely poor service on the behalf of Cheness. I buy things from all over the world, probably 500 items over the last 10 years and I have never been less satisfied with shipping or customer service. The conclusion here seems to be that it is a gamble to buy from Cheness. Some are happy, some are not. Some get what they order, some do not. Some get good service, some do not.
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