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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2012 2:30:30 GMT
I am looking for a katana around the 200~300 range with a balance that feels light.
I personally own a stainless beater and I have tried my friend's Practical katana, but both feel unwieldy and heavy when compared to a Chinese jian (where the center balance is at the guard). I understand that jian is a jian and katana is a katana, I am just setting a reference point. What I would like to ask the forum is which beater blade out there has the best control and a good cutting edge.
What do I mean by control? I practice arnis and had training in nito. I also do most of my practice cutting against empty aluminum soda cans or 500 ml bottom, because the empty cans are light but tough enough so that any misalignment of the edge or insufficient speed will mess up the cut. It's quite fun, I can assure you. I always believed that skill >> blade since I can split soda cans cleanly with my stainless blade. But then after borrowing my friend Practical Katana, I understood that a good blade HELPS A LOT. Most importantly I didn't have to re-align the blade after every other cut like my stainless beater.
So after a long winded background I would like to ask the forum for a recommendation on a: 28 in to 30 in katana at $200 range with excellent control and a good cutting edge?
Thanx in advance AL
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Post by Lobster Hunter on Nov 15, 2012 2:36:33 GMT
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Nov 15, 2012 2:42:28 GMT
The Kris Cultery 26-A is the second lightest/agile blade I've wielded. Second only to the Kris Cutlery 26-II (the version with the groove). They are insanely agile and quick feeling, because they are only 26" in nagasa length, they are about 1 mm narrower (width/height of the blade), and the shinogi-ji planes (the area above the shinogi ridgeline along the blade) is slanted in at a greater angle than most production katana. The 26-II has all that, and is grooved. If you want any faster or more agile, you'll have to go with a "ko-katana."
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Nov 15, 2012 2:48:00 GMT
Here's my review of a 26-A ( link here). There are pictures of it next to a Munetoshi Mokko, which is an improved version of their "Light Cutter." It makes a light blade look fat even. :lol:
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2012 3:16:28 GMT
Thank you guys for the quick reply! I was wondering if there is one that is at least 28". Part of it because that is about the length of the boken i have been training with for years and another part is that I don't know if I am ready to give up the extra angular momentum from the 2".
Musashi looks tempting for a beater but how are the fitting with that brand? I would like a decent saya that wouldn't just fall apart; I have heard horror stories about severed thumbs.
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Post by chrisperoni on Nov 15, 2012 3:27:53 GMT
The musashi shirakawa are iron fittings iirc. I would be far more concerned about cutting with a stainless steel blade- that's far less safe than the chance of a saya failing on you
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Nov 15, 2012 3:51:38 GMT
Kris Cutlery makes a 29in blade katana, and I agree with Kuya that they are fantastically agile. The Musashi Shirakawa line as well as the Jubei line(available at Swordnarmory) are very light feeling swords. Both will only run you about $100, so you could get two or three with your budget.
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Nov 15, 2012 4:04:02 GMT
The Munetoshi Mokko that I ended up with was a lemon, but in general, it is a sword more to your length preference as it's about 27.25 inches not counting the habaki. It's also very light, but my experience with the quality control wasn't a good one. The only reason I am not recommending the Musashi or Jubei lines are because their bo-hi grooves end in that cheap rounded fade out style, instead of the more proper sharp termination that the Hua Wei brand or Munetoshi Mokko have. There's also the Dynasty Forge Musha Class, which as far as I've experienced has had the best fit and finish and quality for a $250-299 sword. One even made a pretty good showing in the latest Cutting Mechanics Competition ( link here).
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Post by johnwalter on Nov 15, 2012 4:25:44 GMT
First,put your stainless blade away and never cut with it againthey aren't made for contact.you have been pretty lucky you haven't hurt yourself or someone near you with it.This isn't meant to insult you,its just friendly,honest advice based on truth. With that out of the way,in or near the pricerange you stated,Munetoshi has some dependable offerings just under $200.If you can find one their original Matsu is very light and a good piece.It is rather thin tho with no niku so it isn't a very stout blade.Their T10 lightcutter is more beater worthy.Their Mokko is on par with the matsu but a little stouter blade.Their cheaper version Akitsushima is good and stout but I personally don't care for the shape of the tsuka.alittle above your price is the Hanwei practical plus,a great little sword.The Raptor series,imho,are the toughest most reliable "beaters" on the market,tho the only one a would consider "light" is the Moroha.Please realize tho that light is really more an issue of good balance and what is good balance will vary from user to user.The Hanwei practical "light" may fit you well.And as Kuya said KC has a great product in the 26 kats.The Musashi shirakawa series are much cheaper than your budget asnd are good blades as are the Jubei series by Munetoshi,which I believe to have better made fittings.Trueswords.com also has a no bohi Musashi shirakaa series which is a little tougher than the bohi version,slightly.Just remember none are indestructible. And a bad cut on a hard enough target will damage any blade.tin/aluminum cans really aren't ideal tasrgets for a katana.There are other choices available and you can always spend more,but these are some of my top recommendations per your criteria and stated price range.Hope it helps.
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Post by johnwalter on Nov 15, 2012 4:45:54 GMT
Some others posting while I was trying to tap out on a phone my recommendations.I can't believe I forgot the DF musha series,they aren't bad either.But my Raptors have taken targets that bent two musha series. As for lemons,you can get a bad piece anywhere,honestly.I bought a DF Bushi series that was horrible!Completely out of symmetry and the edge was burred so badly you couldn't wipe it with a rag without it pull strings from it.So lemons will always slip thru the cracks.Customer service is the main thing. As for thumbs being cut from bad saya,it can happen,but the main issues there are improper nukitsuke.Coming from trying to initiate cutting motion before the blade is clear of the saya.Over time improer draws will cut thru any saya that isn't metal reinforced.These are some of the finer points of Iai practice.Start very slowly and develop coordination,muscle memory and awareness.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2012 6:07:25 GMT
Thanks for a all the excellent advice! Sadly the most tempting blades are out stock... KC and DF Musha. Raptors are tempting, but I don't know if I will every go against yellow bamboos. Though I might just look into Mokko. Both arnis and nito requires one handed forms, so I am just suck it up and get a shorter blade just so I can focus on the forms.
Oh yeah the swinging the replica around is reckless on my part (originally it was intended just to get used to the weight of a real blade), but boredom makes me do dangerous things... Thanks for all the consideration and advice, I will use it as it was intended: a wall mount.
Soda cans is a bad habit that I can't break, I just have some many of them and my punals and kukris love them. Iai is definitely something I aspire to and the reason I am obsessed with empty bottles and cans. I always remember when my teacher sliced off the top of an empty bottle on a draw. Of course then he follow up the demo with the horror stories of the thumb-less man.
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Nov 15, 2012 6:25:31 GMT
Jesus... they JUST got a new 26-II batch last week... I know I got the last 26-A... and now the 29s are gone too. It's hilarious how fast the stock disappears... :lol: They still have the 26-III, but that partial bo-hi on only one side irks me aesthetically... I can't recommend it. Wow... Dynasty Forge is out of the bo-hi versions of the standard length Musha too... Must be the holiday rush or something! For forms and whatnot, the Munetoshi Mokko was good for me. I learned how to do "no look noto" with it before I sold it. It performed well after I had it sharpened too. I was just really bummed out on how bad the QC was on the one I had ( review here).
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Post by johnwalter on Nov 15, 2012 7:00:11 GMT
Certain varieties of green bamboo are just as challenging as certain varieties of hardened yellow bamboo,contray to what some people think. Cans aren't terrible but plastic is much better.The Munetoshi mokko from swordnarmory.com would be a good light budget minded learners choice for light targets.And their customer service has always treated me right.And I have either owned/handled/cut with or inspected/shipped many of their products. I personally recommend the Raptors to many beginners,a bad cut on even a water filled two liter plastic bottle can put a set(a double bend) into many differential hardened blades.And a good th/spring tempered blade is very forgiving to beginners.
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Nov 15, 2012 7:48:37 GMT
These ones from Hanbon/swordmaker688 are very good and quick to boot. www.ebay.com.au/itm/HANDMADE-Japanese ... 1c26f2343b While they list as 27.8 inches they tend to be longer on average - you can also as Yao to pick you out a longer blade, Rob has one from Yao that's just over 29 inches. The price includes shipping as well. Original priceUS $126.00 Discounted priceUS $117.18 Approximately AU $112.84 Sale ends in 3 days Buy It NowBuy It Now
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Post by johnwalter on Nov 15, 2012 8:29:39 GMT
Much better available for your money.High quality alloy fittings? And a folded blade at that price?honestly,usually not good quality.All experienced members of this forum will tell you the same.A good folded blade will cost more.I have no experience with this dealer and I am not the ultimate authority.But I see nothing special there.Better to go with a known maker and dealer who has trusted customer service.Just my opinion,for what its worth.but $117 for a genuine quality folded blade,better to with spring steel or even DH for a learning blade.
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Nov 15, 2012 9:00:10 GMT
I'm with johnwalter that you may want to opt for a non-folded blade for now, but as the whole eBay Forge Can of Worms goes... my experience with Hanbon Swords was a pleasant one ( see review here). Of all three of the swords I purchased for that eBay Forge comparison, the Hanbon was the only one I kept. Then again, my Hanbon was about $100 more than the one aussie-rabbit linked.
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Nov 15, 2012 15:05:27 GMT
Yes I agree your Hanbon was more expensive and a nice sword to boot, I was keeping the price inside the <$200, that being said this is only just outside the mark so for a 1095 DH is good value www.ebay.com.au/itm/HIGH-QUALITY ... 1c26f237e2 Discounted priceUS $217.12 Approximately AU $209.07 I have two of the folded blades as "pass around" beaters and everyone has liked them in terms of balance, weight and so on, the Ito is still tight, they don't rattle, all in all not bad for the price and a good first blade. Edit: woops, looked back and saw the "$200-$300" - So maybe this one - www.ebay.com.au/itm/Japanese-Swo ... 1c207cdcda Double grove, longer blade (Nagasa Length: 28.7 inch / 73 cm) 1095 DH US $276.88 Approximately AU $266.62
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2012 3:11:32 GMT
Hey everyone! Just updating all forumites and thank all of you for your help!
I would like to announce that I have already made my purchase! Against my own earlier comments and desires, I ended up buying the Munetoshi Mokko from Sn'A. The reasons were quite simple, first Mokko has the shortest POB and second I realized that I live 10 minutes away from Sn'A and patience is a virtue that can wait until Xmas.
So I picked the Mokko at Sn'A in Montclair today. It has small clean office and well organized warehouse. Mike, one of the staff, was very nice and courteous and the Mokko was waiting for my examination when I arrived.
The Mokko's fitting is firm the polish is clean, though collar (fuchi?) moves a little. Comparable to my friend's PK, the PK's fitting is a bit nicer. On paper PK is tiny bit heavier than Mokko, but they felt the same to me. The balance is noticeably different though with Mokko being easier to wield one handed than PK. However Mokko feel a little more difficult align and rather sensitive (cutting wise) compare to PK. The feeling is more pronounced when wielding Mokko two handed; I could understand why some people may think Mokko is too light. I figure just need to get better
With everything said and done, I think Mokko is PERFECT for my purpose and application, it challenges me where I want to improve and has balance to allow me to attempt the one handed forms.
Thanx again forumites for all you advice!
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Post by johnwalter on Nov 27, 2012 7:57:52 GMT
Very glad to be of help to you and congrats on your first real sword.I hope its what you were looking for.For its price and purpose,I think its a very good piece.Its a very good light target cutter.Especially for 1handed forms.Imho,it should help you develop a good technique,with practice,without relying on a heavy blade to make the cut,on lighter targets suchas water filled plastic bottles,beachmats and single roll tatami.Train safe,train with sincerity and,have fun! Maybe you would consider doing a review of the Mokko for the forum?
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Post by johnwalter on Nov 27, 2012 8:06:03 GMT
Also,if you are that close to SnA,send the cutting Mechanics a message here or on youtube,maybe you guys can meetup for some cutting practice.they(Jacob(Jakeonthekob) and Greg) arein your atrea and are great guys!
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