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Post by Lobster Hunter on Nov 20, 2012 21:17:05 GMT
Ouch. They're charging for shipping now, I guess. That wasn't the case a few years ago. It seems they've also been improving the quality here and there. Let us know what you think of it when it arrives!
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Post by Rob Dorsey on Nov 22, 2012 3:00:27 GMT
Hey LH, helps if you read back on the thread to sort of, "catch up" if you get my meaning. I've had the sword for over a week now and it is quality problems with it that prompted the creation of the thread.
I''d read the first 4 posts on the thread and that should catch you up to why I'm sorta kinda PISSED.
With all the good swords out there, the bar is fairly high on service and quality. Cheness is way behind on both and their ad copy reads like they are the top of the hill. Well, I beg to differ on that point. However, I realized that I am playing a very dirty game in that I have not complained about any of this to the company. I'm sure that they would just say "send them back" which is not what I want. I want these blades, in better condition and a hundred bucks cheaper.
When I buy things I cop an attitude that I knew the job was dangerous when I took it. Therefore, I rarely send anything back if I think I can fix it or bring it up to a standard that is acceptable if not exactly what I bought, Maybe that's being too much of a big boy about it but I've always operated that way and I sleep like a baby, a wimpy, victimized baby.
Yeah, You Heard Me, :roll: Rob
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Post by kingrikoraru on Nov 22, 2012 3:32:59 GMT
I've always wondered about Cheness in general. From the review on SBG main page, they have a glowing reputation but because of this thread, I dig around for a while and it turns out that it's mainly because they pioneered 9260. So I wonder, is there a difference between their 9260 and the LQ Chinese Ebay forge? cause I got one from Hua Wei but I can't compare it to the Cheness one other than that it's around 100 bucks cheaper.
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Nov 22, 2012 3:43:52 GMT
Have you posted a review of the one you have ?
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Post by kingrikoraru on Nov 22, 2012 3:57:30 GMT
No, not really. It's a their lower end sword so I didn't feel like there was a need for one
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Nov 22, 2012 5:29:29 GMT
Cheness has been riding the coat-tails of the old SBG Main Site reviews for a while now. Back in the day, when they first started, they were cream of the crop, because everything else was poop. They haven't caught up with the "rise of the bar/curve" because they haven't had to. SBG's outdated main site reviews are keeping them fed and comfortable. That's why whenever someone new posts a question asking if they should buy a Cheness, I try to steer them away from it. I had to learn the hard way of not realizing just how out of date the main site reviews (and the older reviews) are.
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Post by kingrikoraru on Nov 22, 2012 5:37:42 GMT
Yea, that needs to be updated because I nearly bought one when I first started but I didn't have the money or chance to. But now, with all the negative opinions on Cheness I think I'll wait to see if they improve.
Anyway, the glowing review on Cheness on SBG main page really needs updating or something, because it makes them seem like they're amazing swords for the price range when there are Hua Wei and Dojin Pro kats.
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Post by Rob Dorsey on Nov 23, 2012 3:52:50 GMT
I had my doubts but I had not spoken to anyone who owned one and I really wanted both a 9260 blade and a 33" nagasa and the ad looked good, they had a US presence and a recognizable name. I took a chance. I lost. Happens. Rob
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Post by kingrikoraru on Nov 23, 2012 4:28:11 GMT
Well, that sucks but that happens. I just figured there was something wrong because that blade was on their so called trial-run for so long that I figured it didn't sell, plus Ebay forges sell 33' 9260 for a good bit cheaper (I inquire Sinosword, Zhisword, and Hua Wei about that and 33 adds about 30-40 bucks on their standard 28' when the steel is 9260) I ended up not getting any because 33' would be impractical for someone with my height and I only wanted for the cool long bad-ass katana factor.
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Post by Rob Dorsey on Nov 24, 2012 1:55:01 GMT
Quick picture of what I call my "favorites tree". Sixteen of my faves, right across from my desk as I write this. On top is the Hau Wei 1.5" sori katana.
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Nov 24, 2012 2:20:40 GMT
That's a lot of katana... I limit myself to six, maximum. If I want another, I sell or give one away. I'm working toward a Euro now. Hopefully KoA has a sale or free shipping promotion this year.
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Post by Rafael on Nov 24, 2012 5:24:24 GMT
Its funny you talking about people wanting cheness based on the old reviews. That is exactly why I bought one of these recently also. I also had not seen any 9260 stuff on eBay. It is mostly all 1060 or 1095 with about 5% of the stuff claiming to be T10. I went with the 30" blade instead of the 33". Same price for both, but I wanted to keep the weight down while still having a few exta inches. The saya fits really great and the blade had none of the cosmetic issues you mentioned on the 33". It also has the crane design tsuba that matches the pics on their site but looks diff than yours. I also hate the fake hamon but otherwise the blade looks flawless. My one complaint would be that the Ito seems to be glued onto the sides of the handle. To I guess keep it tight? Seems crappy. Otherwise it's a nice sword, if the blade you didn't polish up yet has the same ugly hammermarks and stuff you should ask them for a replacement or swap it for one of the 30" ones.
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Post by Rafael on Nov 24, 2012 5:29:47 GMT
The other thing I forgot to mention is that the sword has two mekugi. One bamboo and one brass. I remember reading somewhhere that one brass mekugi is reccomended by some one, maybe a kendo organization or something, for extra safety. Seems like a good feature to have. Do any the eBay peeps use brass mekugi? If so I would consider that an easy way to separate the wheat from the chaff.
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Post by Rafael on Nov 24, 2012 6:47:18 GMT
Now that I look again I do see this one item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem ... 0036947494 I guess with Cheness I feel like I'm definitely getting actual 1060 steel with the correct amount of silicon added to it. I certainly hope a sword I order from eBay will be made with the kind of steel, prepared and tempered in the correct way, that I wanted. But I feel less sure compared to buying from a proven source. Kind of like with all the guys selling T10 swords on eBay. Am I really getting tungsten alloy approaching 1% carbon, or am I getting some ordinary 1095 or even soviet surplus uranium. Even if is it made with the correct proportions of ingredients, has it been correctly quenched and otherwise treated in the subtly unique particular way that maximizes all of the advantages of a particular type of steel while avoiding or minimizing it's potential weaknesses? Or has maybe everything been guesstimated or the same process they use on regular 1050 stuff is being used with your specialized alloy. It is my understanding that each type of steel requires different methods to temper correctly. Hence why a given manufacturer often specializes in a particular type of steel. They get good at working with it so they don't want to use other steel they are unfamiliar with. After reading www.sword-manufacturers-guide.co ... teels.html It was hard not to want to get something from cheness to see what 'good' 9260 can do first hand I guess at least now if I get something from stnihonto supposed to be made with 9260 Ill have a basis for comparing the results
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Nov 24, 2012 6:58:14 GMT
The T10 steel used by most (if not all) Chinese forges doesn't have Tungsten ( source link from other sword forum). The "T" just stand for "Tool Steel." If you wanted to get a Cheness, go for it. People just post here so that others know what to expect. Cheness fit and finish is spotty... except for the saya. Seems that most people who buy a Cheness get a very well fitted saya. No rattles, but because of propper habaki to saya fit, not because it's so tight it rubs the blade.
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Post by Rafael on Nov 24, 2012 13:24:20 GMT
This seems problematic since the swordnarmory munetoshi line and even the SBG custom katanas are made in china out of what is supposed to be T10 steel. I don't own a SBG sword, but my munetoshi wakizashi does seem to be harder with better edge retention compared to 1060 blade I have used. Because of these qualities I was operating under the assumption that it was real tungsten steel. After reading the material at kuya's link about Chinese T10 I feel less certain.
Trying to email Chinese ebayers asking for a reliable composition listing of their sword steels is probably one of the tasks given to people in the ninth circle of hell. I guess I am going to give it a try.
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Post by Rob Dorsey on Nov 24, 2012 18:42:58 GMT
Do not fear emailing the eBay sellers. While their English skills are often found wanting, my experience has been that they are almost fawningly attentive and willing to help. If you find a forge/seller with a quality to price ratio which pleases you, may I suggest that you try to build up a relationship with an individual there. This will provide you with an inside track and often a nice discount on future purchases. I did this and it has worked out well for me besides the enjoyment of developing a "pen pal" friendship with a Chinese sword seller.
Just for reference, if I may, here are a couple of sellers with whom I have corresponded in the order of helpfulness and quality: Yao (swordmaker688) at Hanbon Sword, Jacky at Hauwei Swords (hauwei-sword).
Best of Luck, It's a Jungle Out There, Rob
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Nov 24, 2012 19:27:06 GMT
It's basic salesmanship to "fawn" over a potential customer that contacts you.
Despite the failings of ST-Swords coated blade entry to my eBay comparison, I went with them for my custom freestyle cutter after Hua Wei ignored my messages asking about custom measurements, because Sheng would randomly IM me while I was online some nights to chat about non-business small talk. Of course, I know that his primary motivation for a person-to-person relationship most likely has business underpinnings, but he worked harder to keep in touch with me after he got my money. If it turns out my custom order ends up being poop, then it'll be my last ST-Swords sword. Regardless of that, he still got my money, and that's testament to salesmanship.
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Post by Rafael on Nov 24, 2012 22:47:39 GMT
I am not sure that i will be understood if i ask specifically what percentage of different elements they use in their swords. I also feel like asking "Does your T10 steel use tungsten?" is probably going to get me an answer of "yes". So the devil is in the details, this is why i call it a hellish prospect. Need to be vague enough to avoid giving away the 'correct' answer while at the same time being specific enough to get useful information. And at the same time keeping the questions simple enoough to be understood by non native english speakers. As far as Yao, i have heard good things about him. Also heard some people saying he is selling the same stuff as Ryansword. Ive heard that Yao has a website which is Hanbon Swords. When i went to that site, it doesnt have any swords listed for sale and under the 'about us' section, they say "hanbonsword.com, is a online website of Consumer Electronics with 3 years' experience. Our factory is 75,000 square meters with above 3000 workers and the main products are Mobile Phones." lol wierd. www.hanbonsword.com/-ezp-8.htmlRob, do you know of a website that you have dealt with Yao through? I like the looks of some of his stuff on ebay. Im also wondering if anyone has any info about the T10 steel they use at Sinosword. is it what amounts to 1095ish steel + silicon, or is it actual tungsten alloy?
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Nov 24, 2012 23:49:24 GMT
Odds are the eBay sellers aren't even going to know what the composition is. They're shop owners or online representatives. Hanbon Swords uses either the same forge, or similar forges as Ryan Swords. The difference seems to be their QC and "pick and pull" customization choices. Certain shops/stores have their own ordering and stock, just like how it would be with shop/stores/vendors here in the US.
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