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Post by randomnobody on Oct 29, 2012 1:01:09 GMT
Regarding vertical display, it's not particularly common for katana, more a tachi thing, but I've most often seen the handle up and read the same as blackthorn: it lets the oil pool away from the parts that don't want it. Granted, oil shouldn't be applied so heavily that it pools in the first place...
I know the whole ideology behind horizontal placement is supposed to make the sword more difficult to draw, reducing any sense of hostility. In this same vein, I can see where handle-down would be considered most appropriate. At the end though, I say go with personal preference.
As to the finish, I agree that no new owner should have to polish their sword on its arrival, but with the shipping times across continents and the weather conditions it might encounter taken into consideration...I'd say this level is expected and even minimal.
Edit: this keyboard has no spacebar while on this forum. I wonder why?
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Oct 29, 2012 1:46:36 GMT
Nice case! - as for your sword a little fine polish, Brasso, Mothers Mag polish, even car polish will work.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2012 9:59:46 GMT
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Post by Kumdoalan on Oct 29, 2012 11:08:37 GMT
thanks for sharing the links!
I went over each link and looked at the information and the instructions.
The conclusion I come to however is that they are talking about a different situation than what we have here. The links are all talking about the way to display a sword that rests against a stand. In that situation I agree that the handle has to be to the bottom for a variety of reasons...
But in our case here, we are going to display the sword in a large glass display case. There is no stand, therefore the sword will rest against the back glass panel. In this way we are basically doing the same as resting the sword against a wall.
The instructions I have received in the proper way to stand a sword up against a wall is to always place the handle at the top. This allows the person to reach for and grab the Saya and pick up the sword without a danger of it falling out of the Saya and hitting the floor.
With the large display case we got to use here, there is a good chance that from time to time the sword will be reached for and so I would think that the best way to stand the sword up would be for the handle to be up at the top.
However if in the future you get a vertical sword stand for use inside this glass display case, then a person would have to go with the lower handle position to make sure the sword does not get top-heavy as it sits in the stand and flip out of position.
For now, I would go with the handle to the top. It looks better to my eyes. the other way would seem a bit 'upside down" to me...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2012 11:23:16 GMT
Personally, I like handle up position from aestetic point too. In any case, I'm close to buy vertical stand to use, so it will continue to stay vertically. But I'm care about oil distribution and found some real reason in it. Though, I think that if you will get your katana off (like me) not once per monthes, but at least weekly, and you will re-oil it again and again normally after each use and without heavy oil layer, then most probably it is not so important. But if it is speaking about long-term storing - I'd go on the handle down position.
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Marc Kaden Ridgeway
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Post by Marc Kaden Ridgeway on Oct 29, 2012 11:25:26 GMT
"Kanzan Sato's book ("The Japanese Sword") states that convention for Tachi is hilt to the left and blade downwards. Separated blades and their mounts are diplayed with the blade above the mounts, and Tachi mounted vertically should be displayed with the back of the scabbard facing the viewer with the hilt at the bottom. He goes on to say that daisho should be mounted hilt to the left and blade upwards, with the Katana above the Wakizashi. If mounted vertically it should be hilt upwards with the edge away from the viewer."
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2012 11:43:29 GMT
I see here more philosofy and idea then real physics. This position will demonstrate "peace". Katana's owner says: "I'm here for rest and feel sure." Any other position will say about growing agression with maximum at handle right and blade up. I get it. But blade's health for me is more important then some symbols behind. May be this position is not so correct.
This is really strange, because in most of places I see (from up to down) Tanto, Wakizashi, Katana. And it is the same as it is placed on the samurai's body. Any ideas about mentioned by "Marc Kaden Ridgeway"?
Currently, the "oil distribution-oriented" point of view makes me sense more then anything else.
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Marc Kaden Ridgeway
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Post by Marc Kaden Ridgeway on Oct 29, 2012 12:09:30 GMT
Do what you wish... it is what it is. Personally, I tend to trust books about the Japanese sword written by the Japanese a bit more than I trust "Cheness.com." In the end, its all a bunch of ettiqitue and you can do it however you wish. www.flickr.com/photos/jpellgen/443804444/
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Post by Kumdoalan on Oct 29, 2012 12:11:25 GMT
Yes, me too! I have seen photos of longer swords displayed on their little thin stands with the handle on the bottom, and to my eyes the whole thing looks upside down! In the end , it's your sword, so you can display it the way that seems most fitting to you. But once again, I love that display case, I think it will serve as a big eye-catcher when you have a guest over. I also think you are going to have to base the look of the rest of the room around the glass case as its going to be the center of attention from now on...LOL When you get a chance, I would like to see a wide photo of how you placed the display case in the room to show off the sword to it's best effect? The reason this type of display case is so interesting to learn about for me is that Im planning on getting a sword that will not have any handle and will be for display only. But I think that the normal manner I see naked blades displayed is a but dull, and a bit too dangerous for kids to be around. So I too was thinking of a vertical display case.....and when i saw yours I felt that you were on the right track here.... --------------------------------and.......... This is how I was taught. The dripping of fresh oil is a problem that can really case a lot of pain if you dont take it always into account. Even a very thin coating of mineral oil can have a tendency to gather in little droplets and start to drip down. I like the idea of the way the sword is displayed inside this glass display case, and so I would go with a handle-at-the-top position myself. I like the way the handle is up around eye level. I cant think of any reason to change it... Its a lot more safe...and it takes into account human error of adding too much love (ie- oil) to your sword during maintenance. Attachments:
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2012 13:02:50 GMT
This is position. And I accepted and understand it too. Thank you. Yeah, you really cought the idea. I can say that this is not the final stage. I selected this solution exactly for ability to organize some safe space and increase an impression on a viewer. The target aim (I see till now) is to close the backside of the shelf with a decoration (something in japan style mainly with BLUE color) and put some wooden rack to hang up katanas with open blades (I said somewhere before about 2-3 katanas I want to buy) with handles position up on them. Blade + Saya; Blade + Saya; Blade + Saya. I selected the room with air conditioner and almost without direct sun light. Something like this. For security reason, it will be protected with a proper lock. The room itself may be locked too. I think it will be safe enough against my 3 cats and various child's friends.
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Post by raf2 on Oct 29, 2012 14:16:25 GMT
The other part of gravity you need to consider would be the balance of the stand. I bought a vertical stand, and when I place it with the Tsuka up, the whole thing is top heavy. You need to make sure that you get a stand that has a heavy base. Otherwise the whole thing will be unstable.
RE: Tsuka down, the whole thing is more stable and if any oil does drip you can clean it, as Tsuka up all oil will pool/ gather at the tip (KoJiri) of the Saya causing issues with the wood later on.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2012 14:20:57 GMT
Thank you, I see that we're on the same wave
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Oct 29, 2012 15:06:16 GMT
Welcome to the forum Dima! It is fine hobby you've gotten yourself in. I'll try to offer as much advice as I can. 1st problem seems to me the most major one, personally I cannot say what that is. If that is a flaw in heat treatment, it would be a major flaw, but as SwordNArmory have a factory seconds section, they probably wouldn't let a major flaw go unnoticed in new product. Therefore I suspect this might be some gunk or other more minor imperfection. However I can't say anything for sure. 2nd problem seems to be some gunk on the mune. Seeing this makes me think that 1st is just some gunk too. 3rd problem is the couple scratches or the lines within hamon? Some scratches can occur in production swords fairly often. The lines in hamon are lamination lines. 4th question is probably referring to lamination again (as I believe that the yellow spot is reflection of the lamp?) 5th problem is fairly common, as saya in most production pieces are just made in numbers without fitting each one individually to the given blade. Some will fit better than others. As another international sword collector I agree with you that returning an item can be really hard (easy within EU, but hard outside EU as Finnish post office has size limitations when shipping swords). Then you have the hassle with customs to get the VAT that you paid for back. So generally if the item is not particularily valuable, it's just too much hassle which can take too much time. And reading your description how hard it was to get in the country, I'd think it would be even much more hassle in Israel. Don't know the taxing in there, but it seems to be even harsher there than here in Finland. I really like your glass display case, it looks great. The proper way of displaying Japanese swords is the way that MK informed. Vertically like this (sorry for the picture quality): Tachi tsuka down, katana tsuka up Etiquette is etiquette, but I believe you can store the swords as you see best protecting the swords and fitting your apartment. I'm trying to store all of my Japanese swords horizontally, but unfortunately that is not possible (due to space limitations). I keep all of my Japanese swords in their bags to protect them as much as I can. Those vertical stands are reserved for the cheap mogito and the production blade I'm currently working on (not that tachi), those 2 are not in bags. There are many books and threads (on good forums) that discuss what is proper and what is not. I would trust those over some random places on the Internet. Learning to properly care for the sword is important when it comes to antiques. I doesn't matter that much in production swords, and I think it's better to learn proper care with production swords first. With experience you'll start to understand how much oiling and oil you will need. As a tip for the display I would add something else than the wall for the katana to rest on, and a small spot for the saya to stay on. Both of these features would result in more steadier stand.
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Post by Kumdoalan on Oct 29, 2012 15:18:38 GMT
This is a very important call to give advice on. Perhaps some of you guys looking at the above photo on an Ipad can blow up the photo real big and sharp and have a good look at what we see in this photo? To me it looks like a flaw in the steel itself, and is something that cant be fixed with a little rubbing with window cleaner. What does it look like to you? It seems like its deep enough in the steel to always be a distraction, and is something not worth putting up with on a brand new sword. I think a guy has a right to expect that a sword comes in better shape, and it's not really the owners job to fix a brand new sword that he spent good money on. I think issues like this are why we have around 2 weeks to report a problem with a sword and seek an exchange for a better one without this flaw so clearly in the steel. Attachments:
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2012 15:30:21 GMT
Thank you very much, Jussi. Answer like this is a great honour for me because of its details and size. I think that the best is to send questions with images to the SwordNArmory itself, but there are some problems: 1) they can not be considered as an independent trusted source because they are manufacturer; 2) I tried to connect with them but I don't get answers on my sent mails (very strange thing, I agree); 3) Who knows what will be next sword? What flaws it can contain too? I asked them in my order to carefully inspect it before sending. May be it is the best one they have. 4) It is really hard to send it back and get another one instead because of its very complete official procedure. One example: it is coming marked as "cold weapon" and requires special official permissions and licensing. Each stage requires countless efforts, time and money. So, I'm ready to do it only if it is absolutely unavoidable.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2012 15:39:54 GMT
You are absolutely right in your conclusion. That is why I've started to ask. I don't understand enough in swords and metal. I want be sure before starting to waste time and loose my money and nerves. I'm here to listen you all about it.
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Post by Kumdoalan on Oct 29, 2012 15:41:18 GMT
is it very noticeable?
Is the flaw something you will notice and regret being on the blade every time you pick it up?
Is it going to be an issue to dwell on every time you clean and oil the sword?
Is it going to be a topic of conversation every time you show the sword to others?
If it is, then even if it takes a long time to send the sword back and get a replacement, it will be worth it. You are going to have this sword for a long-long time, and that's going to make the amount of time you have to wait now for the replacement seem very short in the long run.
You live a long , long distance from America. All I or most people will have to look at are your posted photos. You have the sword right there in your hands. So this is going to be your call, your decision, to make alone and the clock is ticking...
If the flaws in the steel are not so bad, then thats good, and you just have to live with them.
But... If you think the marks on the sword are a type of flaw in the steel that should be replaced by the seller, then thats got to be something you consider right now in the next day or so.
If this flaw is something you believe will always be a distraction to the beauty of your new sword, and is always going to be something that people will ask you to explain, then who wants to go though life like that?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2012 16:02:36 GMT
You know, the funny thing is that it does not look bad for me. More of this, it gives some "personality" for this blade. My fear is not its beauty. It looks awesome! My fear is that it will affect its strength and health and that it reflects some internal problems that I don't understand or don't know. I don't want that someday I'll give some good slash (you can see that I have some strength) and it will split on parts and will injury somebody.
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Post by raf2 on Oct 29, 2012 16:19:50 GMT
And here I was thinking you need to bulk up a little more before handling a sword I too have a sword that I see a few blemishes in. I see them as personality as you do. Mine I believe I can polish out with a mild polish. It's too bad that it is so expensive to send back. Looking at the cost it might be cheaper to just buy another one and just live with the one you have. Shalom!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2012 17:00:08 GMT
He-he, I'll take next one from Conan... No, the last thing I'll do it by myself is polishing. Obviously, I mean Not an ordinary polish that we do as a part of the maintenence routing with a ball. It really has a sense. When I made it, they said the first-time import is the worst and most expensive. After this it will go on the same road, so it will cost 50-70% less. I hope... :?
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