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Post by Romulus on Nov 16, 2013 9:23:37 GMT
that helped very much thank you! and what type cutting have those 1060s endured?
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Post by Romulus on Nov 18, 2013 23:15:18 GMT
it most definitely did thank you! I was set on buying their folded steel DH 1060 but seeing as this is my first sword and i dont even work ive had it tightened down to sub $100 so i will have to buy one of those and it sounds like theyre still pretty damn good quality! but man do i want that pretty wave
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Post by Romulus on Dec 6, 2013 17:24:28 GMT
ebay will no sell swords to UK address, looks like i wont be getting my first kat after all heartbreak
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Kuya
Registered
Posts: 1,396
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Post by Kuya on Dec 7, 2013 0:53:10 GMT
I'm glad my research project helped some people out. It was my goal to give back to the community that helped me learn more about swords and whatnot. I'm sorry to hear you couldn't get a sword sent to you, Romulus.
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Post by Rob Dorsey on Sept 18, 2014 2:16:51 GMT
Been eight months since anyone's hit this thread so I hope this will get read. The reason is that I've got some good information to put up here.
Firstly the question as to whether the folded steel is better than good edge tempered one-composition steel and the survey says: NO. The best homogeneous steel blade available is a 1095 blade, differentially hardened to at least R56. This is probably the best deal in a functional cutter, matts or flesh, it won't break, won't be bad about chipping and resists rusting. In all a superior steel which lends itself perfectly to the DH process. I've got several of these and they hold an edge (one of my edges is R63, Go Hanbon Forge!) forever. They don't chip, don't rust and on the cutting dojo they are damned near indestructible.
If your taste tends more to the exotic, the Hanbon Kobuse construction Katana is too cool, I've got four and love 'em all. If you don't know, Kobuse construction is a semi-folded blade in which a good tough steel like 1045 or 1060 is forged into a hotdog bun shape and then a weenie of say 1095 is inserted into the bun. It's forge welded together and then the real artistry starts. The smith takes his hotdog billet (two steels in there, one inside the other), and then he forges the billet into a sword so that, when the final shape is made, the 1095 protrudes a bit out of the edge so that, when the foundation polish is done, about a quarter to three eights inch of 1095 steel forms the edge and the body of the blade is the softer 1045/1060. The differential clay hardening is designed by the smith to make the hamon nei run along the steel juncture and in fact it looks like a crack, but it ain't. To me this is the ultimate in steel blades, all the toughness of a mid-hardness steel, like 1045/1060, with the R60+ hardness of a 1095 edge, truly the best of two worlds. Yao's got really nice ones for under $600 and they are nice.
SO ......Go Kobuse, or go home.
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Post by Arthur Dayne on Sept 18, 2014 2:32:16 GMT
It's an old quote but one that I feel needs addressing. I also read about the whole 1095 is brittle this and that from sbg guides, sbg forum, yahoo answers, ubc, etc but have not experienced anything to back it with the two 1095 DH hanbon katanas I've beaten up. I had edge dings and tiny rolling when hitting old metal sheds and nails but otherwise, no edge cracks or brittleness. I compared it to the 1060 Straight hamon model I bought from them too, haven't noticed any different in brittleness to be honest.
I also have two T10 Huawei DH katanas and haven't experienced any increased brittleness either... no more than my 1095 or 1060 blades. So just because a sword is 1095 or T10 doesn't mean it's automatically brittle, it's probably an idiot myth that ignores the importance of proper heat treatment which I'm sure is the reason those swords I own haven't chipped yet.
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Post by frankthebunny on Sept 18, 2014 5:56:10 GMT
This is a good point but it really doesn't matter much since it will be forgotten too soon once the next guy declares a certain steel type or heat treatment or blade geometry to be the best or worst.
A well tempered/heat treated blade will perform as it should and a poorly tempered one will not, the steel type has less to do with it than many people think. It is kind of ridiculous to state that a certain steel type doesn't chip or take a set or performs well or poorly or even that swords from a certain manufacturer are this way or that way since each individual blade would need to be judged on it's own. Hanbon can make a 1095 that doesn't chip on hard targets for years of use and they can also make one that chips, rolls, takes a set, or even breaks on a single roll tatami the first time out. Any one of these forges can send out a lemon or even a half lemon so to speak. Good advice is to expect the unexpected and realize that you need to access each blade you buy from any given maker.
I personally see no functional advantage in a laminated budget blade from any of the common Chinese forges. If it performs well, I don't see it being because of the process and I haven't seen or heard of any direct comparison proving a laminated blade outperformed a non-laminated blade. Some people are influenced by marketing and believe what they want to believe, and because of this, might be convinced they feel or see a difference. I'm not buying it. Yet. On the other hand, if knowing it was made a certain way makes one feel good about it, I guess it's as good a reason to spend the money as any.
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Post by Rob Dorsey on Sept 18, 2014 17:02:29 GMT
I agree with your statement regarding the Kobuse blade completely and, since I thought that you were addressing my post above, I brought them up out of interest just to let people know that they are out there. Yao is very proud of his Kobuse laminated blades and I have several here which have performed well. They are about as high in the bladesmith's art as Long Quan goes so they are worth a look only from a "Wow Boy-Howdy Looky-Here!" perspective. Any good, well forged blade of good steel with a Niku contour will do as well.
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Post by Arthur Dayne on Sept 18, 2014 17:09:23 GMT
If I do buy a laminated blade it will definitely be for the beauty, novelty and appreciation factor because not only do I have a hamon to poke and stare at, I have some beautiful folds/"hada" I can appreciate and there's the neat knowledge that there's two pieces of steel forged together.
I wouldn't be inclined to cut with one because the mirror polish would be scratched up and distract from the aesthetic features... Anyway, I like the Kobuse blade and the polish from the pictures on Hanbon/Swordsmith668's store but really wish the fittings offered were more exclusive or unique to something Top of the Line.
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Post by frankthebunny on Sept 18, 2014 20:25:23 GMT
I think the reason for these gaudy/cheap fittings is mainly because that's what they think their customers want. You can see this is already changing, slowly, but still changing. Some of the sellers have been starting to offer simple steel fittings and once they feel most of their customers want these on their swords, they will make them more available. I suppose a large portion of the people buying swords from them prefer the current fittings or don't really care either way.
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Post by Arthur Dayne on Sept 18, 2014 20:50:04 GMT
Good insight, that's probably why they have all their fittings inventory on the "Pick your own fittings Page" rather than certain specific fittings for different quality/price range lineups. What bugs me is even if they have more unique fittings, they would still have it on some Pick Your Own Fittings list which would cheapen it to the level of generic Artsfeng fittings you see on $90-$200 budget cutters.
Of the Ebay katana vendors, I gotta hand it to Huawei for playing it smart by offering an entire lineup of simple blacken steel fittings as well as making most of their sword models default with simple clean fittings. The focus goes to the quality of other materials used and overall construction and importantly, the blade's geometry and polish which Huawei's blades have acquired a sort of distinctive brand name appearance. I remember folks mentioning something about "Huawei's reverse Hazuya Polish..." which in itself is a very brand-like trait. Hanbon's stuff is good for the most part, but overall, looks generic and I can't tell the difference between their katana line and say, Lyuesword/TCKRUAN88's (and his rat-tail Jian that he sold me)
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Post by Rob Dorsey on Sept 19, 2014 3:42:35 GMT
I'm sure you know this and I apologize that I don't know your polish knowledge or expertise but the Hazuya polish all the Long Quan shops are doing is reverse allright. It's 180 degrees wrong. Nihonto Hazuya polish is the area between the Nie line and the edge. The reason that the Chinese do this is that it is much easier and faster to polish the Shinogi-Ji because it's softer. In fact if you want a good demonstration of the relative hardness imparted by your hamon, just take a little piece of Hazuya stone and with lots of water polish right along the Nie line. Not only will the softer steel begin to cloud while leaving the harder edge steel clear but you can feel it in the way the stone moves. Really, you can feel the stone drag in the softer material then slip right over the harder edge. Leaves no doubt how well that clay process works to differentially harden steel.
So, the Hazuya polish offered from Long Quan is real polish, and does take some time and expertise but it's not real Hazuya. I now do all my own final polishing and I can testify, it takes forever to get the hard steel to respond to the stone.
Best, Rob
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Post by frankthebunny on Sept 19, 2014 4:59:10 GMT
I think there are many steps necessary before even thinking about proper hazuya polishing as well as the polish having different effects on different steel. I believe the people polishing these budget swords are not following all of the steps leading up to this finishing polish, not using the proper stones with the proper technique and I'm not even sure modern steels like T-10 react the same way to this process as tamahagane. From what I've read, jizuya stones should be used on the ji, not hazuya so this might also be part of the problem. I don't know exactly how they're doing what they call hazuya polish but I'm sure it's not even close to how it should be done. I still think there's a lot of acid etching and mirror polishing going on. Doesn't really matter to me though since I'm not expecting masterworks on a $300 katana and I wouldn't pay extra for this additional service anyway so it's not costing me more. I'm very happy with what I've received for my money so far. As mentioned above, I'd rather they put more effort into the fittings and ito. I'd pay more for steel fittings and silk or good cotton ito If I want the closest to traditional polishing I can get without buying an art polished nihonto, I would go with a Kaneie
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Post by Arthur Dayne on Sept 19, 2014 22:35:46 GMT
If you go to Hanbon/SS668's ebay store the category for hazuya polished blades are called "Japanese classical polishing", now obviously that's not "Japanese classical polishing" as traditional methods would require far more labor and most customers buying from them are too cheap to pay the thousands of dollars anyway. However, the other two vendors below seem to have something unique going on.
ST Nihonto's ebay stores just list the polished swords as "abrasive" and don't seem to indicate anywhere that it was meant to be traditional, but rather, just an extra level of polish to increase the contrast between the hardened edge and softer spine to bring out the hamon.
Huawei Sword's version of Hazuya/Abrasive polish doesn't seem to be aiming for traditional Japanese look either, the edge on a lot of their hazuya polished katanas are in fact really mirror polished up. The edges are so bright that you can blind someone on a sunny day while the softer parts are grey/matte looking. The effect is really distinctive but well done. Hell, their 8 sided Top Quality Han Jian is different from the others sold by having grey/abrasive looking edges while every model in the $400 price range is just mirror/mirror. It doesn't appear like they care about traditional but rather, doing what they feel like.
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Post by Romulus on Oct 22, 2014 22:32:46 GMT
I got it guys!!! I got my first kat! I found a mailing company called forwardit on the SBG website. I did have to pay more than what the blade is worth just to get it to my doorstep though I basically paid double for what I got but it was totally worth it. I got their bottom line 1060 TH, I am a bit sad not to see a hamon but maybe next time when I have a job. Just submitted the review please feel free to check it out!
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Post by makopat on Feb 2, 2018 0:59:24 GMT
Congratulations Romulus! And thanks to Kua. I came across Hanbon Forge and eanted to know if there was a good review. Never did I doubt that SBG forum would be where I would end up. Haha... my first katana was the Mokko ko kat from Cheness. Still my most used. I almost drove some forumites crazy with questions and still they were kind and imformative.
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