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Post by chrisperoni on Sept 16, 2012 6:55:01 GMT
I think it's hilarious how you guys talk about this guy like he's actually the one making these blades you're buying. It's so cute that you believe that.
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Sept 16, 2012 8:00:51 GMT
Pretty sure it's obvious that he's not the one that makes the blades. That would be like thinking Cecil makes the KC Blades or Paul Chen makes the Hanwei Blades. Come on, that doesn't need to be spelled out for most of us. Do you need it spelled out for you? No, you don't. Notice I said "his folks" in my post anyway. But give the others the benefit of the doubt. They're using the seller's "screen name" since there really isn't any other detailed information on who forges for the seller in question. For all I know, it could be some chick named Chun Li with sexy legs.
The only eBay seller I think MIGHT have something to do with the manufacture is maybe Sheng, because when he spoke to me when I was resolving the issues with the sword he sent me the first time around, he said, "i going do my best work this time to make your sword." Broken English, though... so it could most likely mean that he was going to do his best to oversee that his company/crew get it right this time.
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Sept 16, 2012 11:48:49 GMT
Or that he may personally select a blade from his inventory, either way there is no real way to point to the manufacturer, Ryan swords are in there somewhere as well, every sword is a product of many people, those who forge are likely different to those who sharpen, make saya, or anything else, in the end you have to deal with the end supplier, the one sending the final finished product.
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Post by Rob Dorsey on Sept 16, 2012 16:36:41 GMT
With all due respect, I or we never said, or even alluded, that Yao was the smith. In fact he made this very clear to me in his first email. He is the business end, a lifelong sword enthusiast from a family of sword makers and has seven smiths, I think it is, under contract to him. I could be wrong in this number but I am quite sure that he does not just buy blades on the open market, if there is one. They are his smiths and he sets the standards and choses the design, they sweat. From what I understand the Longquan sword production generally works like this: Guy wants into the sword business and has access to some capital. Think of it as being like some doctor wanting to have a vineyard in Napa. The businessman goes to the forges and smiths of which there are many in Longquan, and tries to get the best he can to contract to him for so many blades at such and such a standard for so much money, usually per blade. Then he goes to the koshirae guy for tsuba-fuchi-manuki sets and to the sword bag guy and the saya guy to set up lines of supply. Then he finds a facility and hires some helpers, usually women for the soft work, and then he oversees the assembly of swords as the orders come in. His main job is advertising (hence the eBay presence, it's because it's easy) getting in the orders and seeing to it that they are filled. Through all this he manages quality control, production (smith #2's wife is having a baby let's say) and answers emails from America-jin like me. If he does it right he makes some money, makes a bunch of sword freaks happy and builds a business right under the shadow of a monster like Hanwei. Yao should be a hero to us. He embodies the new China, the entrepreneurial spirit that is almost American in nature but is carried out in the most difficult regulatory environment imaginable. He does all this amidst the cynical skepticism of an American market composed of nimrods like us just sure that he is trying to screw them someway, somehow. So, if you buy one of this guy's swords and you are happy with it, why not drop him an email to swordsmith688@hotmail.com! and tell him you are. Won't take a minuet and I can assure you it makes his day. In closing chrisperoni, please don't be offended but I seem to notice that the majority of your posts are negative verging on attacks. Just as a suggestion, it might be more fun for you to offer something to the conversation of a positive nature. It's just a suggestion but it would enrichen your forum experience. Best Regards, RD
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Post by Rob Dorsey on Sept 16, 2012 19:07:56 GMT
Guys, In the spirit of fairness and full disclosure here is something from friend Yao that was not to my liking and required my intervention to set straight. Yao had made for me a three sword Daisho, kat, waki and tanto, all identical but that's where the story goes awry. The tsuba of my choosing came only in katana size which was ok on the wakizashi but of course looked silly on the tanto. Fortunately I found a quite proper tsuba for the tanto which is quite robust (really just a much shortened version of his other blades) but being folded steel with hamon takes a great edge. All set for my seppuku :twisted: ...not. The large lobster tsuba is the original here so that you could see the absolute necessity of doing something. I mean...damn! What do you think?
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Sept 16, 2012 20:09:48 GMT
chrisperoni has been around for a while. He is of the camp where Ryan Swords (I still am of the belief that Yao is either a subsidiary or sources from Ryan Swords) are all poop or something. He may have had a bad experience with them. I completely understand how he feels if that is/was the case. I will probably never buy another Cheness (unless my current one breaks... which isn't likely), due to all the bad issues I had with the quality of mine for the price I paid. Still a really strong beater, and it's the sword I go to when I want something super heavy to swing. But yeah, too many issues with my Cheness for me to recommend them in good conscience.
Either way, I'm giving Yao/Ryan a chance, because outside of their ugly as sin bo-hi, the bang for the buck as far as design elements and looks is really there. And truly, half the reason I'm buying these eBay swords is so I can give a first-hand experience and advice to all the "is this eBay seller...?" posts.
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Post by ineffableone on Sept 16, 2012 20:37:58 GMT
There is definitely some connection between Ryan and Swordmaker668 In this Swordmaker668 ebay sale the pictures all have RyanSword water marks, and the Ryansword heading and info. www.ebay.co.uk/itm/120401995761?nma=true&si=xwoGVGenXeGRoj0Vzzq4H2ijkiU%3D&rt=nc&_trksid=p4340.l2557&orig_cvip=trueThis is not the only one of these, there are bunches of other old Swordmaker668 sales that have the same thing, complete copies of Ryansword info but sold from the Swordmaker668 vendor. Also if you go to urlspy.co.uk/www.ryansword.com you will see in the links out a link to Swordmaker668 as Ryansword's inventory with this description "Japanese KATANA, High Carbon Steel Blade items in swordmaker688" I found these just by googling "Ryansword and Swordmaker668" Is Ryan buying from Swordmaker668, or is Swordmaker668 buying from Ryansword, or are they both buying from the same place? What ever it is, there does seem to be some connection at least in what products they both sell. They are both selling the same swords.
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Sept 16, 2012 20:54:55 GMT
Ryan Swords used to also sell under "Ryan_Katana688. I think it's all the same company, which is why I'm not buying a Ryan Sword for my eBay head to head to head. SwordXXXXX6XX Yao is representing the "Ryan Umbrella."
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Post by chrisperoni on Sept 16, 2012 21:54:55 GMT
Let me preface by saying I'm not all upset or bent out of shape, nor are my knickers in a twist . I'm just talking as we all do on a forum - which is of course a place for talking. I reread your OP Rob and see now you did describe your suppostion of Yao's business model- I had forgotten that you wrote about that. Before I post in any thread I read every prior post (for real), however I don't always reread all past posts so sometimes I may forget something I had previously seen, if I am not posting right after the first read through. I had seen this line just before my recent comment: -and had read the back and forth about Yao which to my perception fit my thinking you were all under the impression he was making these swords you were buying. Alright then, that's where I was coming from. I see now I was misunderstanding the context of the conversation. My mistake. -Regarding your comment that my posts are negative and verging on attacks--- unless you've actually read some 1700+ posts of mine then it's not right for you to state the majority of my posts are negative and verging on attack. That's just plain incorrect. I figure you might be picking up on recent posts which have been negative and I can understand your opinion forming thusly. But hey, I call things like I see them and lately I've been seeing stuff that's bothered me enough to comment negatively. Remember now, I'm not trying to be argumentative- just trying to say my piece If you actually did read all or enough of my posts I think you'd find I lean towards being helpful and generally in a good mood. But I wouldn't expect anyone to read that many posts from one person. I do feel it's a little of the pot calling the kettle black to point out that I misinterpreted your writings, then turn around and pass judgement on everything I've ever written... I also think it's funny when people say don't get offended... because we all know the natural response to whatever is coming next is to be offended - lol. It's like that scene in Pulp Ficton at the restaurant where Mia explains this to Vincent, if you get the reference. ----- Kuya- How can I say this without sounding rude? I can't I guess but I've got to say it. Don't put words in my mouth. I don't want you telling people what I'm thinking- you don't know me well enough to do that, and I don't agree with enough of what I read from you to want you speaking for me. And why you brought up Ryanswords and me in the same vein here makes no sense to me. I didn't bring up Ryan here. However (of all things for me to say next) after me just saying I don't agree with you much -lol - I think you might be onto something with your thoughts on the connection to Ryan and 688. re. Ryanswords and my opinion of them: Having said that let me qualify your assumption of my thoughts on Ryanswords. If a sword from them is good then so be it. My issue is they are inconsistent and so not worth taking the risk. At no time in my head while posting in this thread was I making any connection to 688 and Ryan.
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Post by Rob Dorsey on Sept 16, 2012 22:36:56 GMT
I openly confronted Yao on the Ryan Sword connection and he flatly said that, at this time, there is no connection. he further explained that he used to allow Ryan to buy some blades from his guys but that connection, business-wise, ended abut a year ago. He and Ryan are good friends apparently so he is careful of not causing hurt feelings but wants to make it very clear that despite mixed up pictures and email addresses and whatnot, those things happened during the beginnings of his company and do not exist now.
Yao told me that his company and Ryan Sword are two separate companies and do not share forges, facilities or employees. They are separate. This guy has told me enough about his business and products that have proven to be true that I hold him in a position of pretty high credibility. Certainly higher than anyone on this or any internet forum.
Not whining but I have a condition called Neuropathy. In my case this has resulted in severe pain but more importantly it has caused about a 50% loss of dexterity in my hands. Think of it as a creeping paralysis. It affects my life pretty severely like I can no longer eat with chopsticks, shuffle cards or type. I'm relegated to the two index finger point and shoot technique if you know what I mean. My point is, yes there was one, that I am bloody tired or re-writing some of these explanations regarding Mr. Yao's business plan. I believe the guy, he has won my respect and trust, in so much as I trust anyone save my wife, and so I'm going to retire from the discourse regarding friend Yao's voracity. What I would like to say is, "go establish a relationship with the guy, buy a sword or two from him, work up an idea for a custom based on his blade that requires perhaps custom forging and watch how he handles it. In other words, get some info of your own before you beat him up or...pipe down!" but, in the interests of political correctness I won't say it. You're all good people and well worth my time or I wouldn't be here. So, I won't say it, no matter how much I want to.
"Fill yourself with knowledge before you start spewing it out lest you become empty."
Best, Rob
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Sept 16, 2012 22:52:41 GMT
chrisperoni, I refer to Yao and Ryan as the same, so me bringing up Ryan Swords was an interchange with what you were saying about Yao Swords, to me, they're one in the same... Ryan being the more well known "version," I used his name when I blanketed your opinion of them (them being Ryan and Yao).
Your "inconsistency" belief is troubling. In combination, Ryan and his clones have sold thousands of swords (and that's only with the eBay standings... who knows how much more outside of eBay they have), and less than 0.5% have had any form of issues reported. This "Longquan Conglomerate" (for lack of a better name) just may be one of the biggest sellers of katana out there... maybe behind only Hanwei and the Handmade/Munetoshi/Musashi (I've seen too many similarities in style and clones between Handmade/Musashi and Munetoshi). And all this is without networks of retailers in the USA like Hanwei and Musashi have.
Now as for considering Ryan Yao to be a hero as Rob said... meh... that's already passed. Paul Chen got the credit for it. He was the first to get the retail and distribution set up.
What I'm trying to do is get over the "name brands" and maybe see if these eBay guys are able to pull off a Hyundai. It wasn't too long ago people would scoff and never consider buying a Hyundai, just because of its brand, but eventually people are starting to realize that they're just as good as your Toyondasans for most people's purposes... and you get more standard features for your money.
EDIT: After seeing Rob's post before mine... I'm kinda 50/50 on what to think now. I'll never know for sure with 100% certainty what's up, as I'm not there in China looking over paperwork and accounts.
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Sept 16, 2012 22:59:02 GMT
Try this one. www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dl ... AQ:US:1123 From what I understand Ryansword is a forge that has it's own presence and also subs out blades for others, but I could be wrong.
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Sept 16, 2012 23:20:30 GMT
I have a custom 9260 from Cheness that I'm happy with however my experience with Hanwei has left me with the "ripped-off" feeling, viewtopic.php?f=6&t=13152Since this was bought through the SBG store I'm waiting for Paul to return from OS to see what his thoughts are. Either way I have two full size folded blades coming from Yao for the price I paid for the Hanwei, from my perspective if Hanwei is so big why can't they put junk in the bin where it belongs.
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Sept 16, 2012 23:36:52 GMT
Much better, if you don't mind how much was it ? - no sub directories on /robdorsey.com/Swords
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Post by chrisperoni on Sept 17, 2012 0:17:17 GMT
I'm not sure how you meant it when you said "Your "inconsistency" belief is troubling" -do you mean it's troubling that I believe it, or it's troubling that there's inconsistency? -My point is with RyanSwords you don't have that 'trust' in being able to expect the sword will meet a certain level of quality; the sort of trust Rob is certain we can have with Yao for example. Or for example with Jacky from Huawei (for me at least), or Sonny and VA, and so on. Perhaps the problem is RyanSwords will sell the blades that other vendors we know will refuse; or maybe Ryan doesn't bother with the same level of inspection/quality control. While we can't be sure of the overall level of quality from RyanSwords since we only have a few examples, why take a chance when we know for sure people have had bad experiences?
edit/add: Going on what Rob said about 688 and Ryan, I think we can't lump the two together. Clearly there was a reason Yao stopped dealing with Ryan professionally.
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Sept 17, 2012 1:49:57 GMT
I'm not there in China at the shops, so I can't be totally sure. If we're agreeing to give the benefit of the doubt to whoever Rob chatted with, then OK. Let's separate Ryan and Yao from now on. Ryan didn't list Yao's eBay names in his "these are also quality Ryan Sword Sellers" section of his recent auction listings, so I guess that's a bit more to go on as well.
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Post by Rob Dorsey on Sept 17, 2012 2:28:30 GMT
Thanks guys, Yao will breath a sigh of relief when I tell him. Like I said, it's only been a year or so so there could still be remnants of a relationship floating around out there.
I hope no one thinks I'm getting anything for my advocacy. I do get pretty much what I want from Yao but so would you if you contact him directly. Josh and the Aussie have both bought blades from Yao but didn't mention whether they had contacted him directly or gone through eBay. Me, I bypass eBay whenever I can. I've yet to run into a vendor who won't give you a discount at least equal to the eBay fees. Now if I could just find a way around PayPal :twisted: .
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Kuya
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Post by Kuya on Sept 17, 2012 2:43:57 GMT
I chatted with him about the customizations and fitting choices via MSN, so I could instantly link pictures and verify he understood what I wanted. Some of his auctions have different numbers for the color ito/saya stuff, so I wanted to link the pictures and make sure he understood what I wanted. I purchased the sword through eBay, though.
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Post by Rob Dorsey on Sept 17, 2012 21:01:45 GMT
Just for clarification: He choses (and from the koshirae on his eBay offerings I reckon him to have pretty good taste) fitting materials and artifacts then numbers them The number always refers to a specific item. They change because he reckons that a such an such blade will probably need so and so Ito or Same. Therefore there is little chance of getting the items mixed up.
Me, I've captured all the koshirae pictures into a single file that I can browse when that sword itch beckons. In fact I've got an icon on my front screen that takes me to that page.
A helpless sword shopper.
RD
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Sept 17, 2012 22:24:38 GMT
Woe is you that would have such an itch! For yea shall be poor for all of your days while your descendants shall bask in the gleam of your collection.
:lol:
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