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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 13:46:46 GMT
I always thought that katanas are the most beautiful weapon, and now i think is time to buy my first katana. Unfortunately expend money on internet isn't simple for me and i'm also a bit confused, so i have to ask for something. let's begin: First, and most important thing, the budget. I would like to spend around 300-450 dollars for an authentic japan sword, so with a real hamon and double hardened (cheness kaze maybe?). I know it isn't simple find an original katana with this slow budget, so if there are better monosteel sword at the same price, i'll appreciate tham also. With this premises what is the best sword? Oh, i almos forgot i don't like that notch (i don't know is real name) that you can see on some blades (like "AISI 1060 Dragon" www.sword-buyers-guide.com/ryumon.html) I've look by myself on this site for some katanas and i noted that no one fulfill me at 100%. So the next question is, How difficult (and expansive) is change some parts like samegawa and tsuba? Let's talk about the shipping now. I've always wondered, how it's possible order and buy sharpened weapon on internet? Are not there some laws against this? And what about the custom-house? No problems with that? (i'm italian; i've bought only videogames from uk and there isn't custom-house for this trade) And i think i have finished now. Sorry for the long post but this is a complicated world. Thanks to everyone. Really.
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Post by Elheru Aran on Aug 14, 2012 13:53:40 GMT
You aren't really going to find an 'authentic japan sword' from JAPAN for that budget, likely, unless you get really lucky... But the Kaze is, if I recall correctly, a decent enough model. I would suggest you look into the Hanwei Raptor and Practical models. If you live in Italy, I believe you are legally forbidden from owning sharp swords. I would suggest contacting our member 'Kittenslayer' and asking him for advice, as he also lives in Italy. If you do it... don't incriminate yourself By the way, what exactly do you mean by 'notch'? I don't see any on that katana? Also, samegawa is rather difficult to 'change'. Tsuba are not so hard; you take off the tsuka, make sure that the tsuba fits, and put the tsuka back on. For the samegawa you may have to replace the tsuka entirely, which is a more difficult procedure.
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Post by Don Boogie on Aug 14, 2012 14:39:50 GMT
Just Like Elheru Aran said,if you want to buy a real authentic katana from japan,well,let us see,with 300-400 dollar,no way you will have an authentic one for that price,not sure for how many $$$ an authentic might sell,but it will i think be over 5000 dollar,or more:p. For 300-400 dollar,you might indeed be better off with a Kaze katana,here is a review of Paul Southren www.sword-buyers-guide.com/kaze- ... eview.html Or you might try buying of one of these Ronin Dojo Pro katana's,or save up a lil bit more and buying of one of their Elite line's,they are 800 dollar,but have real hamon www.roninkatana.com/The Ronin Dojo pro are trough hardened katana's,so no hamon on those,but fine cutters,if you check out some revieuws of the members here. Or perhaps buying something from Cas Hanwei,like the raptor serie's,or the practical Katana Serie's. www.oriental-weaponry.co.uk/acat ... anese.html But i am not sure how the law is in italy about importing swords,here in Belgium,it's lucky legal to import them:)
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Aug 14, 2012 15:32:56 GMT
Welcome to the forum. Most likely the only authentic Japanese swords in your budget will be blades in very bad condition. And I have a feeling that these are not the things you are after? Most likely you would be looking at bare & rough wakizashi blade at this price range. Some of them are sometimes around if you know where to look. There are sellers of authentic Japanese swords in Italy, but those that I'm aware of mostly focus on good quality stuff. Like others said before me, you are most likely after Chinese copies of Japanese swords (like Cheness Kaze etc.). The notch you mean is bo-hi, and you can just choose some production sword that does not have it. Finding a good differentially hardened production sword with that budget shouldn't be too hard. And even more options if you accept the through hardened models. As you live in Italy, I would advice staying away from YarinoHanzo after my recent error with that company. I believe they are one of the few production katana sellers in Italy, maybe due to sword laws? If ordering something to Italy outside EU, you will have to pay VAT, which might be c.21% in Italy. For antique Japanese swords this would be 10% in Italy (I think so). I don't know the laws in Italy well, so it's wise to check with your officials or members of this board how easy/hard acquiring swords in Italy is. Is your budget for just the sword itself, or does that have to include shipping & VAT as well? As for example Cheness Kaze is c.300$ + c.50$ International shipping + c.60$ VAT, don't you just love EU... So that would be c. 410$ in total. If you'd go for 450$ sword the total would be much over that. You can order from an European vendor, and therefore the VAT is already paid, but of course the price will be slighty/lot higher. Paul Chen Practical Plus Katana is one sword I could recommend, owned one and it's fairly good sword. Can be had under 300€ within Europe if bought from the right place.
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Post by frogdude on Aug 14, 2012 16:36:16 GMT
I've bought a few things from these guys (they're within the EU, so shipping might be cheaper & faster). I was a bit wary about ordering from Poland at first, but i've had no problems at all. military.swords24.eu/index.php?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 16:58:08 GMT
Allright, first in first thank you all for your advice. I will watch carefully your suggested katanas and meanwhile i will concontact 'Kittenslayer' for more information about my country. (If i remeber well, i have to go to the police for make the "permission of purchase". But i think this method isn't for online shops) I think i've used the word "authentic" bad. I mean something close with the traditionaly forging. Now i now what a bo-hi is (and i don't like it). i prefer to spend 450$ in total, so maybe is better for me find a european shop. I see the elite line from ronin and i admit i really like those sword, but it's a bit too much for my first online purchase. Maybe in a "physical" shop i would be more comfortable.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 18:22:10 GMT
I don't think I would suggest the Ronin Elite for you... not because they aren't a great sword, but because I don't think they would suit what you're looking for. You asked for a "real hamon" and a sword which is authentic in terms of being "traditionally forged". A real (visible) hamon is found in Differentially Hardened (clay tempered) blades, but Ronin blades are Through Hardened. You said you would take a good monosteel blade, but at the price range you're looking at there's no reason you can't get exactly what you want from a Chinese forge... so I would hold out for exactly what you want. You have many choices of fine clay tempered, folded steel, hand-polished production katana for under $450... or even under $350.
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Aug 14, 2012 18:29:06 GMT
The Ronin Elite line is in fact forged via several types of complex lamination and Differentially Hardened. It is only their Dojo and Dojo Pro lines that are TH.
@robbe_881,
Are your import laws and taxes as harsh as they are in other European countries? If so, then you may be best served finding a vendor that works out of Europe. I have read that several European members have had good experiences ordering through one our of favored vendors here in America called Kult of Athena.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 18:31:53 GMT
The tsuba (hand guard) is the easiest to replace. Just knock out the mekugi (bamboo pegs) out of your handle using the mekugi-nuki (brass hammer) that comes with the sword (keeping in mind that they are often slightly tapered to wedge in the holes, so make sure you pop it out on the side with the bigger diameter), then knock the tsuka (handle) loose while holding the blade pointed upwards. Replacing the samegawa as well as the kashira will require that you learn tsuka-maki, as you will need to re-wrap the tskua later with new ito (the cotton or silk braid on the tsuka). So it would be a good idea to order a sufficient length of ito before you think about doing anything with the tsuka. There are tutorials on this forum on how to do tsukamaki as well as how to properly remove the tsuka. There are many sources on the internet who sell the parts... usually sets of tsuba, fuchi, and kashira, and also lengths of ito (if you get the ito from the same source then you know you'll have them all together when ready).
Yes
Generally no.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 18:33:30 GMT
Ah, okay! Thank you for that distinction! The Dojo and Pro lines are the ones I was familiar with. Good to know.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 19:05:48 GMT
21% of taxes and the laws are still a mistery. Edit. But the taxes are only for the things who come from outside europe. When i import games from UK i don't pay any taxes. Edit 2. I found an interesting article and it seems i need a "permission of purchase" for holding a blade, but many internet shop sell sword anyway and nobody do somethingfor stop them. Very well.
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Post by Lukas MG (chenessfan) on Aug 14, 2012 20:23:23 GMT
As mentioned, contact Filippo (Kittenslayer) before you buy anything that will get you in jail. Not that it'd have stopped Filippo... As a sword, the kaze is good. I have it. Blade's great, the fittings ok. Would really deserve new tsuka and tsuba but functionally, it works. It's quite a massive and heavy katana though, just so you are aware of that. Great cutter but maybe not what you're looking for.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 21:14:03 GMT
Yes, i sent him a PM an i'm waiting for an answer. Meanwhile I'm making and excel file with the swords you have suggested (even i'm not spending tons of money i want to do good things) and it's a long work because there are several type of dojo pro. Until now the kaze is my favored (i love the brown tsuka.
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Aug 14, 2012 21:26:13 GMT
I have a Kaze as well. I like it a lot. The fit on all the parts and of the blade in the saya is as good or better than any other katana I've owned. The samegawa was pretty decent on mine. The hamon is very attractive. The blade was decently sharp for as thick as it is.
The blades do often come with aesthetic flaws though, such as grind marks along the spine and somewhat sloppily polished kissaki's. The ito is cotton, not really cheap but not high quality either. It has held up well with medium use. The strands do not alternate correctly. The seppa are thin and not very attractive. The fuchi and kashira often show unattractive casting lines. These issues do not affect its ability to function, but they are worth mentioning.
A few swords I'd recommend would be:
Dynasty Forge: The 1060 Musha line is very tough and well built. Kris Cutlery: Their 26 and 29 blades are sturdy, and overall build quality is very good. Ronin Katana: Their 1060 Dojo Pro line is fantastic, and the 1045 Dojo line is great as well. Hanwei: Their Practical Katana line has good diversity and has been used as a common standard of quality for years.
Also, their are the companies Huawei, Zhisword, Sinosword and st_nihonto that offer customized and stock katana options for great prices.
All of these brands are sold for below $300 USD. I'm not sure what they would cost for you, though. I'm sorry that I cannot be of more help in that area. I hope you find something that you love.
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Post by Elheru Aran on Aug 14, 2012 21:28:51 GMT
In the meantime, before you get an actual sword, you could consider picking up an iaito for practice handling a katana? It's unsharpened, so I don't think you should have legal issues with one... just a thought of course, and if you want to save up for a regular katana that's perfectly fine. I know I didn't bother with getting a training sword before I bought my first!
I guess an important question should be asked-- do you want to draw a distinction between functional and attractive, or do you want your sword of choice to be both? Or do you not care about looks?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 21:43:15 GMT
Absolutely both. But if i can fix the looks without difficulties i can fist buy a functional sword, save some money and than try to custom it. Oh, one more thing: what is the difference between 1060 steel and 9260?
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Aug 14, 2012 22:50:22 GMT
1060 is a simple carbon steel. That is, it is composed of only iron and carbon. It is a very good steel, it can take and keep a good edge and is tough. It does well either TH or DH.
9260 is 1060 with silicon added to increase flex. It is generally considered to best be utilized via TH in a "spring" temper. Done as such, it has very good durability with pretty good edge retention. If it is DH, it loses much of the flex that the silicon provides and is considered on par with normal 1060.
So, in summation, 1060 is good as either TH or DH, but 9260 is best as TH.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2012 17:12:52 GMT
i'm approaching the final decision. In order from my favorite to the last one: 1) Cheness cutlery Kaze from 349 to 421 (euro) 2) Dinasty forge 1060 musha 275 E unfortunately out of stock 3) Ronin Dojo pro not found 4) Hanwei Pratical plus 323-343 E All the prices are from european shops that i found on this site.
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Aug 15, 2012 17:45:56 GMT
Ronin Katana con be found either at the SBG Store or at www.roninkatana.com/, unless you meant that you could not find them from a vendor available to you over there.
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Post by Elheru Aran on Aug 15, 2012 18:58:28 GMT
If I may make a suggestion for if you decide to go with a Ronin Kat, which would probably be one of my top recommendations...
What you could possibly do is find someone in the States or Canada who is agreeable to acting as an go-between for you. You purchase the sword from Ronin, they mail it to your go-between, who then sends it to Europe/Italy for you. This solution has been used at various times by a few of our European members who have interests in swords unavailable in Europe.
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