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Post by Sir Tre on Aug 14, 2012 1:36:40 GMT
while i cannot attest to the hilt on Jin-Shi Han jian, nor the custom models, as i only own the production model xian jian, i must say that the hilt has been disassembled by me right after i purchased. yes the handle is a bore thru, however garret had the extra bamboo pin and not just the copper tubing pin by itself. i have never had any problem with this jian, other than a slight set from a bad dink on the cutting stand. it is barely noticeable. also the edge is better than most market offerings, as it has clamshell geometry (appleseed).
if i had the money i would own a custom tang jian and han jian as well as the two piece set of jian pictured above. jin-shi got the good stuff.
i also own a hanwei rodell jian, and had a problem with the tang nut assembly that i had to take care of (read about it in sword repairs section).... my jin-shi has never needed anything done but a quick polish after use.
btw if u look at pics of garret's han jian, it appears to have peened pommel
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Taran
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Post by Taran on Aug 14, 2012 17:04:18 GMT
Well, blast. I have no way to upload the photo here and can't access photo sharing sites here in Afghanistan, so I can't show you what Sinoswords sent me.
As soon as I read this, I shot them an email about tang issues sayign other manufacturers are having issues and asking to see theirs. They sent me a photo back of three of their bare blades, including 2 jian and a dao (I think it's an oxtail). The tangs appear to be roughly half the width of the blades. I can't tell for certain from the image if the tangs are threaded or are set for peening, but the rounded portion of the tang does not appear to have threading. It's long enough to be threaded, though.
Anyone want me to email the picture so it can be posted?
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Post by chrisperoni on Aug 14, 2012 18:45:02 GMT
Taran's pic:  FWIW - all the tangs I've seen in this thread (in any of the pics) look okay to me, but the squared off shoulders are NOT a good sign to me- lots of stress at those corners when using the blade Attachments:
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Taran
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Post by Taran on Aug 14, 2012 19:16:25 GMT
So how should those shoulders look?
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Post by chrisperoni on Aug 14, 2012 20:40:00 GMT
here's a quote from the SMG site: www.sword-manufacturers-guide.co ... sword.html "Another factor where a sword can succeed or fail is in the assembly of the hilt. There was a major difference between the construction of antique swords and modern swords; modern swords are made entirely of steel in one piece. The blade, tang etc. is a single piece of steel. Contrary to this it seems to have been the nearly universal practice from the Middle Ages until well into the 19th C. to make a steel blade and scarf-weld it to a wrought-iron tang. This means that the tang, shoulder of the blade and the first couple of inches of the blade were made as a separate piece and forge-welded to the blade. This means that we do have some different considerations; the tang needs to be treated differently because unlike the wrought-iron tang and shoulder of a 'period' blade the modern sword's tang is hard and subject to work-hardening in a way that was not true of the originals. This means that the shoulder (the join of the blade and tang) has to be well-rounded to avoid creating stress-points that can cause the blade to snap off at the tang. Ideally the tang should have a lower temper than the blade as well." here's a pic of a nicely radiused one:  (nevermind the welded thread- that's a different discussion  ) Now, I've seen many that are not as rounded but what you don't want is a right angle at the shoulder/tang point, no sharp corner. You want a nice curve- like a lady. |
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Post by chrisperoni on Aug 14, 2012 20:54:20 GMT
I just remembered I made this thread a while ago: Inside the hilt of a typical production Han Jianwanna see a bad tang? Even though it does have radiused shoulders- eek- it does not look good! quote: "Yet more tang trouble- wtf!? Seems whomever was grinding the shoulders into the blade had some trouble and gouged out big chunks of the tang. I noticed this and the peg hole at the same time and actually pulled a face and made a gutteral sound "Ghguughhk" which expressed my distaste for what I found. "  I never did take a pic of inside the wood core though- just talked about it |
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Post by Taiwandeutscher on Aug 15, 2012 1:53:05 GMT
Well, I always doubted Longquan forges, especially after I heard a speech of their museum's currator here in Taiwan, where they had a so-so exhibition. Must say, if the mueseum's guy doesn't know more about swords, then ....
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Post by chrisperoni on Aug 15, 2012 4:16:03 GMT
like %95 percent of any asian type sword come out of Longquan so it would be a big oversimplifcation and generalization to say we can doubt all the forges just for this. It's much more fair to say we can generalize about these jian types with cylindrical grips as Lancelot has stated. What he's saying is the Longquan forges who make these kind of jians usually make it the same way.
I still do love Longquan and know it is a great place of sword history and manufacture. the fact is the forges their run the gamut for quality.
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Post by Nox on Aug 15, 2012 19:42:51 GMT
I think that sums up that image perfectly.
You would think that over the years some of these sword companies would realize that the tang and hilt construction is one ofthe most important part of swords functionality, and they have to know by now that most of their customers are gonna want to take the sword out and use it, but I guess as long as it looks pretty on the outside they really don't care, shame really because some of these swords have a really nice blades that could most likely cut pretty well.
also I haven't looked into it much, but historically what was the hilt /tang construction of a han period sword? I was under the impression that they were more of a solid one piece construction?
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Post by Sir Tre on Aug 16, 2012 21:52:17 GMT
Nox, i reckon we have found the reason for rising sword divorce rates. some poor guy pics a sword because it is flashy and sexy, but doesnt realize that it is high maintenance and, well just not sturdy enough to handle everyday interaction, so the sword tends to complain and can hurt him in the end.
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Taran
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Post by Taran on May 6, 2013 15:27:09 GMT
What kind of epoxy did you use? My Han Jian isn't so bad, but is still hollowed out. The tang actually does fill most of the hollow core, the moreso the closer you get to the shoulders, but there's nothing holding the grip in place at the tail end beyond a nut and a couple washers.
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Post by chrisperoni on May 6, 2013 15:36:51 GMT
I forget but I usually have 5 minute and 2 hour epoxy one hand, so one of those
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Taran
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Posts: 2,621
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Post by Taran on May 6, 2013 17:09:32 GMT
Eh. I decided against that. I'm getting a local woodworker to lathe up a new wood core for me. He's doing it in hickory. Problem solved.
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)
, but yup, I did have to use a lot to fill the grip core up when I put it back together.
