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Post by lamebmx on Feb 24, 2012 21:26:53 GMT
Wow that deer vid was eye opening. kind of makes me realize exactly how deadly a sword is.
My 2 cents, tatami with a dry wooden dowel in the middle has its own plus or minus to without. there is more resistance in the cut and a lot less forgiving of blade alignment. it stays better for the cut. to me i could feel the cut more but in a way it was easier to cut also. Now I will definately try soaking the dowels and tatami at the same time.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2012 5:21:35 GMT
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Post by Groo on Feb 25, 2012 11:04:47 GMT
so I guess that's why arms and wrists and legs are targets in many styles! That would be a fight stopper! Unless you were a T- 1000.... or the guy from the Holy Grail! Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader both lost their fighting spirit pretty quick after taking one of these cuts! :lol:
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2012 19:50:56 GMT
Cold Steel has some flesh and bone cutting videos if you haven't seen those yet. www.coldsteel.com/japanimperial.htmlNot promoting their swords and don't own one. Have heard mixed reviews of their line.
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Post by Groo on Feb 26, 2012 2:38:53 GMT
yea the chinese war sword promo video is the most over the top! :lol:
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ghost
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Post by ghost on Feb 26, 2012 5:00:13 GMT
Guess Cold Steel promo videos aren't as popular as I thought A lot of butcher's meat, but you do see whole side ribs and the sort get cleaved right through. Also give you an idea of what the cousin knives can do :? Another good avenue are the "Deadliest Warrior" series where they do tests with the various weapons. They use the expensive ballistic torsos with "skull et. al." which gives a very good idea of what would happen (comes with the complementary blood splatters) Then the doc comes in and pronounces you dead...deader...dead-est. :lol:
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Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Feb 26, 2012 13:13:36 GMT
alot of people make fun at the cold steel videos, however, id like to see this sort of testing done by other vendors...i want to know my sword can cleave a side of beef in one swing, and if it can survive some of the over the top semprini they do, i know as long as i like how it handles, its gonna be a quality weapon. That being said, i think cold steel stuff is TOO thick,Heavy, Ext. for my taste
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2012 16:53:44 GMT
Supposedly it is true. Historically, Japanese blades were tested on people! Dead bodies were stacked and a cut donward was made, the number of bodies it cut through was stamped on the tang. the higher the number, the better the blade. When that was made illegal, swordmakers sought a usefull substitute for the human body. Tatami mat was the result. Since they were very sincere in their search for a substitute to the real human body, the mat is most probably a good substitute.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2012 17:25:25 GMT
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Post by zentesukenVII on Mar 5, 2012 21:28:29 GMT
LOL @ that picture!
My friend on the other side of town has a small bamboo forest in his yard. He lets me take some every now and then. I will have to start cutting rolls with bamboo cores in them now.
I have cut my fair share of dead animals too. Mostly fish as you are not allowed to throw sheep-head back into the water once you catch them at our land. So my girlfriends dad loves to suspend them from trees and we hack them up together. I must say fish are TOUGH targets! They make good bait for catfish too once you cut them up.
I agree with the CS vids. They are awesome, over the top and my kind of testing. I think they're swords are not very good form what i've heard, but they do know what people want to see.
Btw this is another deer/sword video. One I like to show people when they say my swords couldn't cut a man in half.
Lets be honest, as gruesome as the stuff is its pretty cool.
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Post by ShooterMike on Mar 5, 2012 21:51:18 GMT
Thanks for posting that vid. Since the dead deer was not hanging by the head, I feel this was a more valid test of cutting performance. I have seen this on several videos now. So as far as I'm concerned, it's a settled issue.
Now I want to see the same testing, but with a cut diagonally through the spine/rib cage. That should then be a definitive wrap up to this line of questioning.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2012 4:42:08 GMT
This may be helpful: I am an axe man.. meaning I have an obsession with axes and hatches just as most of you have obsessions with swords. I collect axes and hatchets, and not just war axes but mostly outdoor, lumber, forest, survival axes, etc... The best brand of forest axes in the world are a swedish brand called "Gransfors Bruks". They make the BEST axes. Well, it is known that these axes are extremely sharp (as far as axes and hatchets go) and are renowned for edge retention BUT.. a lot of foresters who use these axes who are also hunters sometimes will use them to field dress or even COMPLETELY dress and de-bone their game. What happens often though is the axe will chip on the bone which is odd because of how much abuse it takes getting slammed against wood!
They literally SMASH their axe blades into hard seasoned wood but chip them when it comes to hacking at fresh bone.. so this makes me think that bamboo or wood would not be a good "realistic" substitute for bone because I don't think wood has the same hardness as bone. If these guys are chipping a Gransfors Bruks axe on bone yet not even dulling it when chopping wood then I don't see how the two materials would have similar properties.
I am a noob with swords though... just thought I'd share my 2 cents. Thoughts on this?
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Post by lamebmx on Apr 3, 2012 9:26:51 GMT
Well extremely sharp, excellent edge retention and tendency to chip are sure signs it has a hardened edge or thoroughly hardened (or just an extremely hard metal). Bone also goes through its own hardening process over time, at least in humans it starts fairly soft, hardens up a lot and then slowly gets harder until it become very hard and brittle. That is why old people tend to break bigger bones fairly easy. Makes me wonder if there is a common thread to their chipping stories. On the ground and hitting a rock? perpendicular to the grain of an old bone? At that hardness would grain even be a factor any more?
Hello and welcome to the forums!
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Post by Jakeonthekob on Apr 3, 2012 18:06:16 GMT
Actually production tatami besides Japanese-made ones aren't nearly as tough to cut. Japanese made ones are about 2-3 times the density of Mugen Dachi tatami omote. Therefore, you get the figure of 1 mat = a person's arm. But it's based off of Japanese-made tatami XD
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Post by Jakeonthekob on Apr 3, 2012 19:56:44 GMT
The minerals and other elements making up bone is far different from the cellulose and it's structural make-up is completely different as well. Cellulose forms into long linear strands due to the beta 1-4 linkages between each glucose molecule, therefore the long linear strands will part much more easily than the complex structure of bone. Bone is like all these random air pockets within it's structure and it is also like a random web of fibers mixed together. If human bone fibers were aligned like plant cellulose fibers, we would shatter our bones everytime we fell and you'd have a world with no walking/running/sports XD.
I'm not sure if the density per unit is very different but the structural make-up of bone vs bamboo is substantial enough that bone will chip axe blades and wood will not.
Bone is also "hollow" so that your body can manufacture blood cells through bone marrow tissue, and some blood vessels actually reside in the bone. It's not like a huge gap like in bamboo, but it's very small so that blood vessels and marrow can get in there.
I personally think some random Samurai got bored cause there were no executions and he cut some bamboo and went, "Hey! This feels like someone's arm! Maybe I should do this when I don't chop up criminals." XD
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