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Post by Anachro12 on Nov 11, 2011 16:14:58 GMT
So I did the smart thing and lurked here for a week or so trying to see what would make a good purchase for my first Katana. I was drawn in by all the positive responses about Kris 29A's Ronin Dojo Pro's, and Hanwei Bamboo Mat. In the end it is that striking Hamon that got me and I pulled the trigger on the Bamboo Mat, not wanting to wait and see the price go back up again. I ordered it on SBG and hope to see it soon. I will probably use this sword as a light cutter and buy a Dojo Pro or Kris as my duty blade. I was considering Cheness 30" but the mixed reviews have me wanting to wait and see if the QC comes back up again.
I also made sure to read the warning thread and this has amplified my air of caution. I will purchase a bokken as well and am signing up for my schools Kendo club so that I may learn the proper way to strike. I am hoping that some of those club members also do some tameshigiri on the side.
I know buying a carbon steel Katana is a commitment to biweekly cleaning and oiling, I have prepared myself for that. I was just wanting to ask those members who have a HWS-2 katana, how is your blade in relation to corrosion resistance? How often do you find yourself maintaining the sword when not using it regualarly as a cutter? What would you do for long term storage if you were leaving home for a few months?
Thanks in advance for your replies, I look forward to starting my collection and being a member here!
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Post by Rifleman Lizard on Nov 11, 2011 16:55:51 GMT
Hi and welcome to SBG. I've got two Mats. One I use for routine cutting and the other was a custom and a good deal from another member. You're right to prepare for vigilant cleaning with any sword. Too many people acquire them and somehow think they can look after themselves, until it's obvious they don't and they get rust spots. You don't need to obsess over sword maintenance though, just follow the basics. I don't clean all my katana twice weekly. Sometimes every couple of weeks does the job when I leave them between sessions. At times some have stayed clean in their saya for as long as a month. Once I've used them I clean them immediately after cutting. It's usually the best method to just get it done straight away. When they're left for more than a couple of weeks I just give them a routine clean and leave them well oiled in their saya. Be sure that when you clean your sword you disassemble it entirely (although you don't clean the nakago at all). That way you can remove the habaki and clean beneath it. I also oil the blade when it is naked; one because i hate getting oil on the habaki after polishing it and two it just ensures you don't miss any of it. One thing to remember when leaving swords in storage is not to over oil them. You only want a thin coverage over the steel, not so much it forms droplets or runs down the length of it. Saya slowly but surely absorb moisture from whatever covers the sword, and eventually it can weaken or dirty the inside. That's how I do it and I've had no bother.
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Post by Anachro12 on Nov 11, 2011 17:42:40 GMT
Thanks Riflemanlizard, good solid advice. I don't have choji oil but do have plenty of 3 in 1 oil around the house which I have seen recommended. Do you have a preferred oil to use?
I will also follow the suggestion of cleaning and oiling right after use. I have kept myself to this philosophy with my firearms and after 10 years have yet to have a rust problem. I am the lazy procrastinating type so I need to make a rigid set of rules for myself or I will put something off until it is too late. So when my girlfriend vacuums once a week I have decided to condition myself to use that time to examine my blade and make sure it is clean and lightly oiled. Kind of using that vacuum noise as Pavlovian conditioning haha.
As far as not cleaning the nakago, where is the point where i stop? Would I stop right where the blade stops being polished? Thanks again for your advice, +1 Karma given.
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SeanF
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Post by SeanF on Nov 11, 2011 17:49:53 GMT
I've only had my Bamboo Mat for about a month, and I have used it four times and oiled it once every time with no problems. I have had my Lion Dog (similar steel) for quite some time and it has gone for up to a month and a half without oiling with no ill effects. Just make sure it is wiped clean and oiled every time it is put back in the saya and it should be fine. If you are really concerned about rust you could always move from oil to Miltec-1. It is some sort of "metal co-polymer" that bonds really well to steel and forms a protective layer. If you are really picky about display I wouldn't go this route as it leaves a very slight sheen on your blade (plasticy is the best description I can come up with) and doesn't come off particularly easily. But it lasts for quite a while if applied properly. As far as I know you can only order it from their website www.militec1.com/ (Don't let the quality of their website fool you ) Edit: I just checked my Tenchi and Kaze which haven't been used for several months. They both got a coat of miltec-1 in June and don't have any signs of rust. The 9260 steel that they are made of is quite prone to rust as well.
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Post by Anachro12 on Nov 11, 2011 18:09:40 GMT
Thanks for the link VeloZerO, I will definitely look into that, seems like it may help with long term gun storage as well.
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Post by Rifleman Lizard on Nov 11, 2011 20:14:34 GMT
I'm the same. After being in the army for years I'm completely insane about weapon maintenance, although I try not to bother when they're not being used. My affection for cleaning has transferred to other parts of my life too. :? This is my sword. There are many like it, but this one is mine. My sword is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. My sword, without me, is useless. Without my sword, I am useless. :lol: Regarding oil, I always use choji oil. Hanwei sell little weapon kits with their swords (from most vendors) that are kind of annoying when you have about 20 of them, but otherwise are very very useful. They come with little bottles of excellent choji oil. I've been using the same one for years. It's inexpensive and does everything you need it too. From what I hear there are other good, more modern, choices to make as to which oil to use, but i'm a traditionalist and it does the job. I always clean my blades about a couple of cm's down the inside of the habaki. You won't miss anything and oil won't add dirt to the nakago. Also, many swords have dirty habaki, on the inside. When I get a new sword I make a point of removing the habaki and completely refreshing the inside of it with Brasso polish and an old wire brush, then I just polish the outside with the Brasso and a cotton duster. The reason I do that is one, I'm OCD as we now know, and two this tiny bit of dirt when combined with a little oil underneath it can make the blade collar grimy. There are no cleaner swords than mine. :shock:
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SeanF
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Post by SeanF on Nov 11, 2011 20:37:03 GMT
It's people like you that make me feel bad about how I take care of my swords.
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Post by Rifleman Lizard on Nov 11, 2011 20:51:05 GMT
:lol: Love your sword like you love your wife. Plenty of attention, look after her and she'll look after you. They're just as dangerous and scary anyway :shock:
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2011 7:06:57 GMT
Is it necessary to remove the habaki, and is it difficult to do? I didn't even know that they were detachable without special tools, so I've never messed with mine. I do oil up to the habaki though and some oil gets inside (not enough to pool and mess things up).
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Post by William Swiger on Nov 12, 2011 7:17:43 GMT
:lol:
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Post by Rifleman Lizard on Nov 12, 2011 7:26:57 GMT
To fully maintain a katana I'd say it was necessary to remove it. All habaki should be detachable, but sometimes they need a quick flick of the wrist to dislodge a tight fit for the first time. Face the blade away from you, wrap it in a towel to protect yourself and the blade. Sit on the floor with the sword out in front of you, holding the nakago. Using your strongest hand grip it hard between your index finger and thumb (inside palm on the mune side not the sharp edge!) use the other hand to support it while keeping a firm grip on the nakago. Give it a strong jerking pull and it should come off without you having to struggle with it. After that it'll not be so difficult to get off. Be safety conscious as always.
It's true, mate! Combine two dangerous elements: wife + sword = my best behaviour.
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George
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Post by George on Nov 12, 2011 9:13:13 GMT
I was wondering this too... I dont know if the OP meant this but the Mat is a 'High Alloy' Well alloy doesn't corrode like normal carbon steel. Pretty much doesn't corrode at all... So that being said, would the Mat need as much maintenance as other blades?
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Post by Anachro12 on Nov 12, 2011 12:31:55 GMT
@ Average_joe101 I was wondering if this blade had a higher corrosion resistance. I have been searching the interwebs for info on this point, but mostly all I can find are the same copy pasted info from Hanwei and an info sheet which may or may not be accurate. www.rovalma.com/PDF/Catalogos/Eng/Cataleg-HWS%20ISOTROPIC6-eng.pdfEverything I find speaks of abrasion resistance and nothing mentions corrosion resistance. Does anyone who owns/have owned a Bamboo Mat have any info or links on this subject? Average_joe101where did you find that information? Is it something that is generally known? I am not adverse to regular maintenance on my incoming Kat, although it would be nice if it did possess some resistance!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2011 13:38:24 GMT
It is necessary to remove the habaki if you think that some water or materials has gone underneath it and it requires cleaning. However some care is needed to remove the habaki so as not to damage the ha machi, which is the weakest part of the blade. I've had the ha machi damaged on one of my katana when I disassemble the tsuka because the tsuka fit is too tight and I do not have a proper tools to remove it. In my case, a rubber mallet alone is a poor choice to safely remove the tsuka. As for cleaning the entire blade, which requires disassembling the tsuka, there are a couple of opinions on it. Some believe that the entire blade should be cleaned at a regular basis, even if the sword is not used. However other might think this is not such a good idea since frequent removal of the tsuka might cause the handle to loosen over time. Other believe that the tsuka should not be removed at all, especially for production katana, since their tsuka are sometimes not properly made for easy removal. Of course that runs the risk of rust under the habaki, especially if the sword is used for cutting. I prefer the middle ground of disassembling the katana about once a year if the katana is not used, and disassemble only when a substantial amount of water or dirt seeps underneath the habaki when the katana is used. More importantly, it is your katana. So feel free to do whatever you think it is the best for your sword.
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George
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Post by George on Nov 12, 2011 13:39:45 GMT
Well they state the blade is made of a secret 'High Alloy' Alloy being Aluminium, its common* knowledge that it doesn't 'rust'. It will corrode over time though. BUT it takes more than twice the time to do this and the corrosion isnt orange/red rust but rather white powderish crystal formations... ALOT easier to clean but it will still corrode and become 'cloudy' *edit I do work in the automotive industry maybe its not common? ALSO better to be safe than sorry. I oil and clean mine the same as i do my other High Carbon blades
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Post by Pogo4321 on Nov 12, 2011 17:41:23 GMT
Alloy does not necessarily mean aluminum(I remember as a kid bicycle companies put out alloy products that were basically aluminum and the terms became interchangeable). An alloy is any mixture of two metals--bronze, for instance, (a combo of tin and copper) is an alloy. The use of the name High Alloy Steel, I believe, simply means they've added a bunch of different elements to the steel to change it's properties. High alloy versus Low Alloy has to do with the percentage of other stuff added to the steel. Aluminum suppose could be one of the elements added. Sorry if that came off as pedantic.
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Post by Hiroshi on Nov 12, 2011 18:08:40 GMT
FYI, the strikes you are going to learn in kendo are nothing like the strikes that should be done when doing tameshigiri. In kendo strikes are done with quick slapping motion with the end of the shinai just hard enough to score the point with zero follow through. When cutting the exact opposite is needed.
On the other hand the bokken kata practice that should be included with regular practice will teach you how to position your body and hold the sword. I suggest lots of practice with a bokken until you get the body mechanics down.
On a side note. I have my old set of Bugo for sale. PM me if your interested.
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Post by Krelian on Nov 12, 2011 20:11:34 GMT
That's absolutely correct. An "alloy" is a mix of two or more of any metals. 5160, 9260, and L6 are all alloys that contain no aluminum. All "high alloy" indicates is that there is a good amount of one or more metals in addition to regular carbon steel.
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Post by frankthebunny on Nov 12, 2011 20:22:42 GMT
how often you need to oil your blade depends on a few factors. those living in high humidity areas would need to do it more often than those in dryer areas. those who cut more often, cutting targets themselves (mats, fruit, flesh ) a blade with a higher polish would be easier to manage than those with a rough polish. after cutting targets like mats and bamboo there might be some stubborn bits and residue that need to be removed and cleaned thoroughly before re-sheathing. you can do this with a good grease cutting cleaner like windex or glass plus and then you can follow up by rinsing/drying and using rubbing alcohol and then give it a good oiling. other cleaners like bonami powder are also good to use because they will help grab the residue while not scratching the blades surface (much like the uchiko powder that comes in many cleaning/maintenance kits) if your habaki is brass you shouldn't need to oil it as it won't rust and actually, you could cause a build up of oil that could seep into the wood of your saya opening. I think it's a good idea to know how to safely take your katana apart and put it back together but as many have already said here it doesn't need to be done too often. I would suggest giving a good inspection before you use it to make sure everything is sound and fit for cutting like checking the tsuka for cracks and and making sure all the parts fit snugly with no movement. after that, just make sure to clean the blade and keep it lightly oiled after using it. check your blade every 2-3 weeks when not in use to make sure all is well and if you are not going to be using it for a long period of time you might want to occasionally clean it and re-oil it to get a fresh coat on. after a long day of killing water bottles and undoubtedly holding the katana blade up many times, you might want to let it dry out before putting it back in the saya to make sure any water under the habaki has dried up. you could use a hair dryer on cool for this. I was a little paranoid of this when I had my first cutting spree and prepared by melting some bee's wax around the gaps in the habaki to prevent water from going in but it might have been overkill, lol it is a good idea to properly maintain your sword but remember that they were made to last during long battles and periods of time when no maintenance was possible with all kinds of nasty fluids leaking and seeping. they are tougher than you might think but it is nice and relaxing to baby it sometimes.
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George
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Post by George on Nov 12, 2011 22:51:03 GMT
Well there you go, that i didnt know But still, as the Mat is 'mixed metals' its still not as active as carbon steel? So would you still assume it would take longer to corrode?
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