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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2006 22:51:58 GMT
hey all, i was just wondering...i know this is the forum for 'under 300 dollar japanese swords', however, i have been eyeing this sword from dynasy forge, which they claim to be 100% tamahagane iron. now, i think its beautiful and all, but first of all, its 2 grand, second of all, i dont know how durable it will be, because, its not like i am going to 'not' use it. so, my question to whoever is listening is, is a tamahagane katana better than 9260 spring steel? is it prettier? is it more durable. i mean, this is the iron/steel sand that the legendary katana's were made out of, so its gotta be pretty durable right? anyway, i would appreciate any and all comments on the matter. thanks
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2006 23:36:28 GMT
hey all, i was just wondering...i know this is the forum for 'under 300 dollar japanese swords', however, i have been eyeing this sword from dynasy forge, which they claim to be 100% tamahagane iron. now, i think its beautiful and all, but first of all, its 2 grand, second of all, i dont know how durable it will be, because, its not like i am going to 'not' use it. so, my question to whoever is listening is, is a tamahagane katana better than 9260 spring steel? is it prettier? is it more durable. i mean, this is the iron/steel sand that the legendary katana's were made out of, so its gotta be pretty durable right? anyway, i would appreciate any and all comments on the matter. thanks You'd do better to post a link. Tamahagane is translated as "jewel-steel". Many will swear that this is the only steel for a real katana, others claim that it's just a way to milk you of your money. If you're interested in acquiring a piece made of Tamahagane that's more of a personal preference. The steel is supposed to be gorgeous, clearly displaying the hamon and it's activities. It is also supposed to hold an edge well. L.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2006 3:34:53 GMT
From what I've read, Tamahagane from a metallurgical standpoint is 1050 with a lot of impurities in it. It was to homogenize these impurities that led the japanese smiths to fold their steel several times during the forging process. It was the layering of all those impurities that resulted from this process that caused all the pretty grain patters to appear in japanese swords, called 'hada'.
From a purely performance perspective, if you tempered tamahagane and say, 1060 to the same RHC, they'd perform similarly.
The tamahagane might have a slight edge over the 1060 merely because it's impurities may contain tungsten, silicon, manganese, vanadium, or any other alloying element that might add to the quality.
Of course it also might have sulfur or something else which might degrade the quality. It's kindof a crap-shoot. Looks pretty though.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2006 4:02:35 GMT
These days its purely comsmetic,there are lot better steels around than Tamahagane. Look what Howard Clarke did with L6. But it aint as pretty The purists would say that if it wasn't smelted in Japan it isnt Tamahagane at all, just like it doesnt matter where a sword is forged even with Japanese steel and a Japanese smith , if it isnt forged on Japanese soil it isnt Nihonto.It all gets a bit anal really. While I do like Dynasty Forge stuff ( I have their Nagamaki) I wouldnt spend the extra on the Tamahagane line.The Folded line is as far as I'd go, after that for a few bucks more than the Tamahagane line you can buy lower level antiques and for a user I would stick with the mono steel stuff, no point in scratching up a pretty blade. That my 2cents worth.
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Post by handforgedkatanas on Dec 12, 2006 6:38:06 GMT
If you look on the Cheness site their folded steel is described as "for display or light cutting" which i reckon means best stick with monosteel blades for practical use,this would probably relate to most manufacturers who produce folded steel blades mainly for asthetics reasons and to charge a few extra quid.If it is for display just buy a cheaper one and tell everyone its tamahagane,don`t suppose they will know the difference!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2006 14:56:11 GMT
Well, with the exception of perhaps some of the higher end blades, it seems all manufactures say the same of all their swords. Every blade I've recieved from Cas Iberia/ Hanwei comes with a tag that states the sword is for display only, "other use may result in injury or death." This is usually found under the pamphlet that says this is a "battle ready sword". Go figure. I believe this is more for legal issues rather than a statement on the blades integrity or actual use. This way, if someone performs an over hand full power strike at chunk of concrete in an attempt to replicate a scene from the movie "Highlander" and the blade breaks or a piece of steel comes off and slices open their femoral artery, they can't say that the company failed to warn them. My .02 anyway.
Red John
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2006 15:29:11 GMT
ok so one question still stands. with the sub-$300 9260 Spring Steel Katana - "Tenchi"/"Shura" pitted up against the Dynasty forge Daimyo class Tamahagane katana ($2000), which would be a better buy? considering looks, style, functionality, and durability.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2006 18:34:28 GMT
Considering you can buy 6 tenchi for the price of ONE 'tamahagane' sword, and each of those six will be more durable and stronger than the ONE 'tamahagane' sword...
I know what I'd get, but then again, right now I don't want a sword to be a piece of living history, i'd rather take a 'historically styled blade that works'.
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Post by handforgedkatanas on Dec 12, 2006 19:09:55 GMT
Another thing to consider,will any modern tamahagane blade become collectable in the near or distant future,i have my doubts,i think second hand value is all you will be able to rely on.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2006 20:47:16 GMT
Quote Adam"6 tenchi for the price of ONE 'tamahagane' sword, and each of those six will be more durable and stronger than the ONE 'tamahagane' sword..." I wouldnt say that mono steel is more durable or stronger, it all depends on the heat treatment.Tamahagane was plenty strong enuff for 1,000 years of samurai, if modern folded or tamahagane blades arent strong enuff, your attempting unrealistic targets.Watch some of the video's at Bugei of Big Tony cutting, if he cant break em , I doubt any one can.(when used properly)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2006 20:58:35 GMT
When it comes to a functioning blade, the Chennes blade kills Tamahagane by a long shot. Chennes’ drawback are that their fittings are more or less ugly as hell, therefore the cheap prices on their blades. BUT Personally I bought a Kaze katana and contacted Fred Loham att www.japanese-swords.com/ were I bought custom fittings after my own liking. My blade looks like a $10.000 customized nihonto now and still I only paid around $600 for the whole thing. I’ll post some pictures once I get my camera working. Chennes sells all kinds of functionality blades that looks good, and from my own personally view – they make the best CUTTERS. But they do not own when it comes to looks. The thing is that you can always make it your own personal project to “pimp” your Katana. Its harder to make the blade sharp and functional.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2006 21:08:31 GMT
The cheness swords are made from a steel alloy with about the same carbon content as tamahagane(little more actually), but also something like 2% silicon if I know my AISI steel designations. It's ULTRA tough. There's a link to a test to destruction page of a Cheness Shura katana... I, in all honesty, think that that's quite a bit more than any tamahagane sword could do...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2006 22:11:57 GMT
all comments greatly appreciated. thank you
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Post by handforgedkatanas on Dec 12, 2006 22:31:28 GMT
Maybe there is someoone out there who has an antique tamahagane blade that they have done some destructive testing with!!!!! I thought so.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2006 4:03:39 GMT
Whitetalon I would have to say that if you are looking for a more traditional look and the traditional function I would go with the Dynasty forge folded machine polish for the money over the Tamahagane. That sword would fit the overall package of the replica traditional nihonto over that of the Cheness swords. As the only Cheness blade that has a true hamon is the Kaze which I think is the best of the line for the more traditional look. And you can always take the Kaze and remount it for a great look. Brian
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Post by handforgedkatanas on Dec 13, 2006 6:29:07 GMT
In addition the cheness kanbai also has a natural hamon but the kaze is better being 9260 alloy.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2006 16:19:00 GMT
Maybe there is someoone out there who has an antique tamahagane blade that they have done some destructive testing with!!!!! I thought so. That would be a sin of the highest caliber. That person would be marked for life and would be shunned by everyone and everything. L.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2006 15:52:48 GMT
cheness has two blades that have a real hamon, the kaze and the kanbai (which is 1045 and probably why roninsword left it out). i just recvieved my kaze. the reason i went with this blads is the functionality of it along with a true hamon. the blade is beautiful. the fittings... well, i think the tsuba is somewhat nice. nothing on it is exactly what i want except the blade. with that said, i bought it to customize it. i plan on buying same, tsuka-ito, and the rest of the fittings if i can afford it. in all truth, cheness puts all the cost of the sword in the blade.
SS_Viator- GET THOSE PICS UP!!!!!! i want to see them pretty bad now lol!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2006 16:42:29 GMT
I'm on it... my camera is all busted...
It has red silk ito now, black full same and blackened silver fittings. Also I got a Handwoven Silk Sageo from Swordstore which costed waaay to much - LOL ;D
All in all the fittings costs more then the sword haha!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2006 17:51:00 GMT
wow, thats crazy, and yes i would like to view those pics also when you have a chance .
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