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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2007 3:47:15 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2007 4:07:27 GMT
Wow...that seems very dangerous to me @_@ I'd hate to be one of the guys holding the person up off the ground, cause if I move, he could die >_< However...it is an impressive level of control and something that must take many years to perfect.
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Post by YlliwCir on Oct 2, 2007 9:42:06 GMT
Hell, I'll do it! Who wants to hold the apple?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2007 5:15:51 GMT
Would any sane person do this? In a word, NO. That video is a display of absolutely nothing but luck. It has no useful purpose and should be frowned upon IMO. There was a video similar that floated around a while back of the same thing only the fruit being cut was placed on the neck. The swordsman misjudged his strike and cut his assistant quite badly. Just silly 
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Post by YlliwCir on Oct 3, 2007 9:50:25 GMT
;DSo I guess thats a no? ;D
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2007 14:11:31 GMT
;DSo I guess thats a no? ;D ;D
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2007 0:18:14 GMT
You'd think a "master" of the art would understand that a sword is a weapon destined and created for one purpose only and that is killing. Most of us "swordsman" on this board understand that even if we only use our blades for "Practice" cutting.
Although 99.9 percent of us collectors will never have to use a sword for its real purpose (ie to kill) that doesn't mean we should forget that that is the reason the sword was invented. A sword is a weapon no different then a gun. IMO such a use of it is quite stupid no matter how skilled one is with a sword it shouldn't be used like that.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2007 5:23:49 GMT
Oh dear not another "traditionalist" just because someone is using a sword in a way that you don't agree with doesn't mean it is necessarily wrong. Is haidong gumdo wrong? Alot of JSA martial artists seem to think so. Look at the youtube video of TPRoach, so many people came down on him for not respecting his sword blah frickety blah. The only way you learn the limits of yourself and of your weapon is to experiment, do it safely of course but don't be restricted by what others thing of as "wrong." Most of us "backyard" cutters are doing unspeakable things to our swords in the eyes of the true collector who buys his swords to look at. Yes a sword was designed to kill but they are also designed to protect and save lives to. I'm not so sure it is such a stupid thing to do as it is a display or speed and skill and trust. Is it a stupid thing for a shaolin monk to lie on a bed of swords with another monk on top of him, a slab of 6" thick concrete on top of that monk and then another monk smashing the concrete with a sledgehammer? To me it is just good clean fun. So the moral of the story is stop looking down on people because they do things that you don't necessarily agree with, if they have the training and the skill then shut the hell up, pull that rather pointy stick out from between your butt cheeks and applaud them for their skill.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2007 15:40:07 GMT
Oh dear not another "traditionalist" just because someone is using a sword in a way that you don't agree with doesn't mean it is necessarily wrong. Is haidong gumdo wrong? Alot of JSA martial artists seem to think so. Look at the youtube video of TPRoach, so many people came down on him for not respecting his sword blah frickety blah. The only way you learn the limits of yourself and of your weapon is to experiment, do it safely of course but don't be restricted by what others thing of as "wrong." Most of us "backyard" cutters are doing unspeakable things to our swords in the eyes of the true collector who buys his swords to look at. Yes a sword was designed to kill but they are also designed to protect and save lives to. I'm not so sure it is such a stupid thing to do as it is a display or speed and skill and trust. Is it a stupid thing for a shaolin monk to lie on a bed of swords with another monk on top of him, a slab of 6" thick concrete on top of that monk and then another monk smashing the concrete with a sledgehammer? To me it is just good clean fun. So the moral of the story is stop looking down on people because they do things that you don't necessarily agree with, if they have the training and the skill then shut the hell up, pull that rather pointy stick out from between your butt cheeks and applaud them for their skill. Hold on, is it me or is there some crazy irony that the "official safety officer" here is in favor of this type of action?  You mentioned speed, skill and trust. I didn't see any of that displayed. What I saw was a guy cutting an apple on an unstable surface that can potentially bleed. It does not take significant speed to cut and apple, nor does it take skill. what it takes is good aim and lot of variables coming together at one time in favor of the action, all compounded by luck. Skin is resilient and forgiving to a point so the skill is diminished. What I would find more interesting is if the apple was placed on a surface which was fragile or thin. Perhaps a fully inflated balloon or an ostrich egg would be more challenging and require greater skill.  If you pop the balloon, you fail; if you crack the egg, you fail, but at least no one will bleed or get a cheap appendectomy, and you may have a nice omelet to round out your training ;D Don't get me wrong, these guys have the right to practice however they choose. My only issue is them relating such a demonstration to martial arts when it proves nothing and can't be applied to a real life situation. IMO, I say again, IMO, at the end of the day this is just dangerous showmanship, nothing else.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2007 16:17:46 GMT
Marabunta's right. You can do whatever you like with your swords, but the minute you bring someone else into harms way then you're going too far.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2007 23:01:22 GMT
Hold on, is it me or is there some crazy irony that the "official safety officer" here is in favor of this type of action? Yeah bloodwraith, easy on tiger. You can't stand on both sides of the fence with the safety issue. To seek to learn of safe handling of swords, is to adhere to tradition mate. I don't know what you think we are learning when we join a traditional sword school ? Safety is alwayst ,first and foremost.  If we don't learn from honourable traditions mate, than is it not our children that will suffer 
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2007 23:19:35 GMT
Oh dear not another "traditionalist" just because someone is using a sword in a way that you don't agree with doesn't mean it is necessarily wrong. Is haidong gumdo wrong? Alot of JSA martial artists seem to think so. Look at the youtube video of TPRoach, so many people came down on him for not respecting his sword blah frickety blah. The only way you learn the limits of yourself and of your weapon is to experiment, do it safely of course but don't be restricted by what others thing of as "wrong." Most of us "backyard" cutters are doing unspeakable things to our swords in the eyes of the true collector who buys his swords to look at. Yes a sword was designed to kill but they are also designed to protect and save lives to. I'm not so sure it is such a stupid thing to do as it is a display or speed and skill and trust. Is it a stupid thing for a shaolin monk to lie on a bed of swords with another monk on top of him, a slab of 6" thick concrete on top of that monk and then another monk smashing the concrete with a sledgehammer? To me it is just good clean fun. So the moral of the story is stop looking down on people because they do things that you don't necessarily agree with, if they have the training and the skill then shut the hell up, pull that rather pointy stick out from between your butt cheeks and applaud them for their skill. Wow a little emotional there aren't we? The fact remains the same the sword IS a weapon and it was designed with one purpose in mind and that is the purpose of KILLING. Certainly I agree that a weapon any weapon can be used to ever "defend" someone or "attack" someone that is what a weapon is made for. I'm more of a libertarian then anyone you will ever meet but lets be honest and grow up shale we? I never said they didn't have the right to due stupid things like this but I also have the right to call them on it when they are preforming something that is highly stupid. I'd say the same thing to a group who was performing a "William Tell" event with a colt .45. Is it possible to shoot a apple off a mans head with a pistol without harming him? The answer of course is it. Do I recommend that anybody even the greatest of marksman try it? No it way to dangerous of a challenge and is truly ultimately asking for trouble, and anyone who truly understood and loved firearms could understand the countless possiblest that could happen that could in the end screw it up and cause someone there life at worst and at best a sever injury. Likewise with this stupid "display" of "talent". He could have easily chosen another way to show his skill without putting to risk one of his students. The true respect of a weapon is understanding its deadly powers whether its a sword, gun, bow, hammer, ax, spear, or blow tube. These items where designed as weapons to kill period. That is the purpose of there existence. Now do they have a right to perform this stupid thing? Of course. I think people should have a right to perform in a duel if they desire. I believe people have a right to shoot cocaine up there noses and to nail there hands to a piece of wood if they desire to, but that doesn't mean I approve of it or will tell people to go out and do it to prove themselves in one way or another. To me this doesn't show any respect to the art forum they are learning. No matter what titles or ideas you may put behind any sword school of thought you are learning a way to kill with a sword. That is what you are doing, learning the ability to kill with a blade. Now most people don't learn swordsmanship to learn to kill, they due it for the concentration it requires and the physical and mental strain and exercise it is to maintain the art forum. Still though you are learning the art of killing period. That can't be denied. Cheap moves like this only weaken such respect for any of these art forums. Men (and women to a extent) lived and died to preserve these teachings no one should ever forget that. especiallynot someone who claims to be the "safety" expert of this board.
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Post by rammstein on Oct 5, 2007 23:34:59 GMT
What world do YOU live in? Certainly not my little mid 14th c. european haven....  You all know my views on this, anyways. I'm not a traditionalist. I'm conscious of what swords are - NOT toys for show. End of story.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2007 1:21:27 GMT
I'm not a "traditionalist" by any stretch either. I'm all for discovering new ways to not only improve skills but also improve the structural integrity of blades. But I am a traditionalist I guess when it comes to understanding and respecting a sword. They are weapons of death not toys, and should be seen and used with respect.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2007 2:43:38 GMT
Just my $.02 here, but while it is an impressive display of skill, it is ultimately dangerous. In respect to tradition, if one really wanted to test their sword like in the age of the sword, one would be cutting the bodies of criminals, not tatami mats. One must respect tradition, but not beyond the point when it becomes dangerous to do so. If you can cut an apple of a person's stomach without harming them, that's very impressive, but just because you *can* do something does not make it safe to actually do it. Swords are deadly, we all can agree, and we all take steps necessary to keep us safe, such as not swinging wallhangers about ^_^
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2007 9:42:43 GMT
Oops, sorry i keep forgetting how emotion comes across in type i didn't mean to be that gung ho about it. I just think that in some places we come down in ways we shouldn't. I mean when the TPRoach thing was posted he got jumped all over yet he wasn't doing anything stupid and was a martial artist, traditional martial artist as well. I just think we need to be as careful with our opinions as we are with our swords. No question we should be safe and i have nothing wrong with traditional sword arts, i am even tempted to find a school that can teach me iaido or gumdo. I have been doing some kendo against a friend of mine and that is quite awesome and i do live steel reenactment so i understand the necessity for safety. So please don't misunderstand me, sometimes things that arent necessarily what we view as traditional have some merit. Once again my apologies if it appears that i am condoning idiocy, im not, i'm just saying that sometimes we need to be careful how we look at certain things, like my example of the shaolin monks.
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Post by rammstein on Oct 7, 2007 13:01:19 GMT
I challenge your definition of "stupid." Throwing a sword in the air and catching it, for no other purpose than looking cool, is stupid. It's impractical, dangerous, and arrogant. "Look at me, I'm a real sam-oo-reye!" TPRoach is just another kid. And I hate to steryotype my age group (probably shooting myself in the foot....) but people like him cannot be trusted with swords. I don't care HOW much training you've had, you should know better. A ssword is a weapon, not a baton. A weapon is designed to kill, not be twirled in the air. So can anyone bring to the table another argument other than "it looks cool?" If not, I recommend you go buy an SLO because function appears to have no purpose in your views. I'm being overly harsh. So if yoshida Yoshihara (yes? I spelled it right?) decided to start a sword twirling club, you can be damn sure I'd criticize it, just as much as what this TPRoach is doing. Besides, who the hell can trust someone under the age of 25  ?
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Post by YlliwCir on Oct 7, 2007 13:36:07 GMT
Yup. 
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2007 14:07:31 GMT
Sounds like Rammy needs a glass of warm milk and an early bedtime.  (My ten months of seniority make me vastly superior)
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Post by rammstein on Oct 7, 2007 14:10:32 GMT
That hurt me deep.
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