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Post by Everguard on Jul 24, 2011 2:54:02 GMT
So I have a horrible admission to make...I've disgraced my first sword.
I ordered one of the last of the DSA Squires last year, and I am super happy with my purchase. After a few failed cutting attempts I have been less active with my sword, and maintenance has not been happening as it should.
I have no idea what I'm doing with the thing. I love swords, and I want to get more, but I've told myself that I am not allowed to own another sword until I do this one justice.
First things first, I have no idea how to polish it, or even oil it. I tried oiling it a few times, but the cloth would always snag on the edge of the blade, and I was never sure if it was too much, or not enough. I used machine oil and a micro-fiber cloth. I tried other cloths but had the same results with all of them.
Secondly, it's begun to rust. The pommel looks atrocious and the crossguard has turned a darker color, but doesn't really look rusty. There are a couple of small rust spots on the blade as well, and I have no idea how to go about removing them. I have read that you can use sandpaper, or certain metal polish products, but I'm afraid of scratching the blade or making it worse.
Finally, I ordered the blade sharpened from DSA, but I wasn't able to cut a single thing with it. It is most likely the fault of the wielder, but the blade does not feel very sharp. I can draw it lightly across my arm without scratching my skin, and when I tried cutting some water filled plastic bottles, I would up batting them around the yard, and breaking a small table into pieces. I'm wondering how sharp the blade should be to do these types of backyard cutting, and how to get it there myself without the use of power tools. I rent a duplex and don't have a workbench or anything, so I'd have to do it with handheld tools and materials. No vices, sanders, etc.
I know I'm asking a lot, but I really need explicit direction for maintaining this thing. I've taken a look at a few articles about polishing and sharpening, but they never seem to be specific enough, to where I feel confident trying it for myself.
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Aaron
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Post by Aaron on Jul 24, 2011 3:55:43 GMT
I'm certainly no expert but I will do my best to answer your questions in order.
1. Any mineral oil is fine to use (I use baby oil). Just put a few drops on the blade and wipe the blade with a clean cloth (I use a plain old cotton washcloth). You don't need a super huge amount, but you don't want to use too little. I do 3-4 drops on each side and it works out fine.
2. I would first get either steel wool (the finest you can get I think is #000) or a fine scotch brite pad and work the spot going parallel to the edges (since you don't want to mess up the finish). If that doesn't work just try varying grits of sandpaper (starting with the finer grits and moving down to the coarser ones) until you find one that works. I think DSA finishes their swords to a mirror polish, so you're probably going to mar it a bit to get the rust out. You're probably going to need a fairly coarse grit sandpaper for your pommel if it's as bad as it sounds.
3. You can cut some targets with a completely dull edge if it's got good geometry and you have good form. Even tatami can be cut this way (though it's not easy). Personally I find that an edge that cuts paper will be the most serviceable edge for a backyard cutter. A lot of it depends on the target and blade type, but since our swords aren't going to be going up against incredibly hard targets, "paper sharp" is a decent rule of thumb.
Anyhow man, rust isn't anything to freak out too much about unless it's been sitting long enough to really damage the blade. You're fine, there are plenty of members here who take great care of their swords and still have to fight rust constantly due to humidity.
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Post by Federico on Jul 24, 2011 3:56:24 GMT
Relax man! First of all, for your pommel and crossguard, it seems like you're describing something normal. Basically, DS uses a stainless steel alloy for some of its pieces that turns darker and darker instead of rusting. It's normal, and you can bring it back to it's initial look with some fine grit automotive sandpaper (although I wouldn't, the aging looks very nice).
Maintenance wise, it's very simple. Get some gun oil, use a couple of drops (I'd say 5-6 per side) and spread it all over your blade, and fittings if they're made of mild steel. Change it once every 2 months and you should be ok. Don't use a cloth, as it absorbs the oil, just spread it with your finger. Since it'll be soaked in oil, there's absolutely no chance it will rust the blade. As for polishing, it's not really necessary. If however you want to remove rust, simple use high grit automotive sand paper, from 600 and above. Just scrub the rust away. If you want to polish the whole thing, start with the grit of your choice and gradually go up the grits, making sure to change the direction of your strokes with every new grit.
As for cutting, DSA blades are thick heavy duty blades. The edge that DSA puts on them is good for tough targets, but it's too tough for water bottles. There's a link on the SBG site on how to sharpen a sword with an accusharp, but I don't exactly recommend it. Instead, look for the link on how Tom Kinder does it. It takes time and practice, but it works. Also, you may want to visit the site of Arms of Valor, they have a good tutorial on sharpening DSA's.
Anyways, don't worry, from what you've described, you're making a storm inside a glass of water. You can fix most of those "problems" in minutes!
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Post by Everguard on Jul 24, 2011 4:20:24 GMT
Awesome advice guys, thanks. This makes the task seem a lot less daunting. I figured I was making mountains out of molehills, but it's one of those things I didn't want to just rush in to.
So one thing I'm trying to wrap my head around, when I'm sanding the rust away, should I go in straight strokes with the grain or will that not matter because I'll be switching direction with new levels of grit?
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Aaron
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Post by Aaron on Jul 24, 2011 4:49:41 GMT
I have to greatly discourage this. Human skin (especially the fingers and face) secretes oils which are corrosive to metal. Yes your finger will be coated in mineral oil, but it will be mixed with your own oils. Using a cloth is the best solution, as it will absorb and spread evenly the oil, coating the blade in a thin layer (which is all that is needed).
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Post by chrisperoni on Jul 24, 2011 4:54:23 GMT
Hello Everguard!
When sanding, if it needs sanding, you can go with diferent directions for each grit so long as you finish with the last/highest grit straight up and down parallel to the edges.
You might be able to get away without sanding if you use something like metal glo or mothers mag and aluminum polish. Follow the directions on the can/bottle- easy enough. Note Flitz and Metal Glo are a bit more abrasive than Mothers.
If you are going to refine the edge and improve the sharpness then you'll be using sandpaper anyway. The kind of high grit papers and metal polishes you'll need can all be bought at a auto supply store.
The key to sanding an even finish is even strokes in whichever direction you are going, and uniform level of sanding across all parts. This is damn hard to do well and you'll likely end up with the edges having a bit more shine to them as you get to the task of increasing the edge sharpness. I personally don't mind this as I like the way it makes the edge 'pop' off the blade a bit, but I'm sure I'd say different if I had the patience to get everything perfect finish-wise.
For cleaning, maintaining and storing I suggest getting plain mineral oil from the pharmacy. Baby oil is the same stuff but has perfume added and sometimes that can cause problems with some steels. Mineral oil comes in light and heavy, either work but light is better. Also, get some rubbing alcohol while you're there. Using a clean clother or paper towel clean the blade with the alcohol, then wipe that off. For the oil I soak a rag in it until it's saturated and keep that in a ziploc bag so it stays oiled and clean. I only use this rag to wipe on oil on clean blades. Works great and leaves a good even coat.
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ecovolo
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Post by ecovolo on Jul 24, 2011 5:27:23 GMT
For times in between uses when you're storing the blade, I recommend silicone spray. Cans of the stuff are cheap, and it's *excellent* at keeping moisture off of your steel.
--Edward
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Post by Tyler on Jul 24, 2011 5:54:47 GMT
These guys are all right about sandpaper fixing rust, it works very well. depending on how severe the rusting is on the blade, im assuming just surface rust? you could prolly get it out with grade #0000 steel wool and some flitz metal polish. i used on a katana i got that came with some rust on the blade, it did a good job at keeping the mirror polish too. its about 7 bucks or so at Ace hardware and iv used it on more then my swords. As for sharpening i use a couple of wet stones i had recommended to me by another forumite and sandpaper. sharpening scratches up the blade a bit so the sandpaper helps finish it up and restore it to the finish you want (satin, or mirror) For oiling the blade i use some choji oil i got on ebay(mainly because i just like the smell of it) but anything from baby oil to silicon spray works from what i hear. Before i blued my fittings i used silicon spray on the guard and pommel to keep them from rusting which worked pretty well. also handling it with leather gloves helps with that too, and for me makes handling it a bit easier. Good luck friend (:
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Post by William Swiger on Jul 24, 2011 7:33:49 GMT
DSA swords..........I have 4 of them and after having them around for awhile, only like one. The sharpened edge that you can order on them has been horrible IMHO. Looks like a gorilla went crazy on the blades. Edges were wavy with deep depressions on some parts of the edge. Sort of like a half moon in a couple of places. I have spent hours on these trying to hide the wide secondary bevels and resharpening to get a decent edge. Once the edges and bevels were worked out, then had to refinish the blades with different grits of sandpaper to try and make them look alright. Very labor intensive products if you want to use them for cutting.
I have a couple of the newer ones, so it is just not the older stuff. The company is great to deal with and excellent customer service. Blades are tough as hell and can take a beating.
Some folks might have had better results with the blades and the DSA sharpening service. I have not. So - do not feel bad that you cannot cut well with them as they are works in progress when you first get them. For the price, they should be good-to-go right out of the box.
Everyone else in the thread has pretty much covered the maintenance issue.
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Post by demonskull on Jul 24, 2011 12:01:03 GMT
While the maintainance and rust issues have been covered, there is a point on cutting that hasn't.
The biggest issue IMO, new cutters have, is not the sharpness of your blade or even your edge alignment, it's not thinking through the cut. When most people pick up a sword for the first time to cut, they focus on the center of the target, don't. Move your focus to an inch or two past and through your target. When you focus on the center of the target you subconciously start to slow your blade down while in the cut, this causes the energy to push your target faster than your blade flinging your target away. If you focus through the target your blade will still be accelerating and give you a clean cut.
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Post by buliwyf on Jul 24, 2011 13:59:42 GMT
Another option instead of oil which is great if you cut alot.I dont cut very much so I use a very good Carnuba wax like mothers on my blades.Just put it on like you would wax a car and when it dries wipe it off and the wax will stop the rust,just dont mix the oil and wax together. I also have a lot of problems batting around bottles but only on one handed swords,somehow using one hand I cant get a straight blade alignment to the target.If I use two hands however it seems to turn the blade to the correct position and cuts fine.Just another thought!
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Post by William Swiger on Jul 24, 2011 15:18:44 GMT
I also use car wax on all my swords. Works great.
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Post by Federico on Jul 24, 2011 16:21:28 GMT
Honestly, I've been collecting bladed objects for more than 10 years, and never had a rust problem when my blades were oiled, and I've always used the finger trick. The same for my firearms. Anyways OP, if you're really worried about it, use a cloth, but make sure you're not removing the oil you've previously put with it.
Polishing wise, you'll want your final polishing step to go with the grain, but the previous ones won't matter since they'll be erased by the first ones. However, if your rust problem is really minor, just use one sandpaper grit, try to get to match to the current level of polish of your blade, and go with the grain. If not, you'll go crazy for a tiny problem.
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Post by u02rjs4 on Jul 24, 2011 17:24:02 GMT
I own a DSA crecy sword and ordered it sharp. I found the same as William Swiger. There was quite a severe secondary bevel so not a great cutter. i don't really practice cut so i don't care but i could see the bevel having to be rounded if i did. Talking of rust i was told not to keep any of my blades in leather sheaths. Is this true? I've had a sword in a leather sheath in storage with a silicon oil and it seems fine. Does it depend on the leather? or do some sheaths have some sort of coating on the inside leather?.
p.s the sheath definitely doesn't have a wood core as you can bend it severely.
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avery
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Post by avery on Jul 25, 2011 0:10:11 GMT
Excellent advice. It's the same as throwing a punch when it comes to force. You don't punch at the guys head, you aim a few inches past, as if you were aiming at the inside back of his skull.
Another point I would stress is good form; there are many videos here, the old site and on youtube showing the proper form when cutting with Euro blades. Give those a look and it might help you out.
Also, if you have access to a buffing wheel, those work great with varying levels of polish compounds available. You'll never really get back to a mirror polish without a lot of work, but a good satin polish is pretty easy to get.
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Post by Everguard on Jul 25, 2011 6:31:48 GMT
Yeah, I ordered the sword with re sharpening service thinking I would want a pro to do it for me the first time, but it really looks like it was hastily done and does not seem sharp. I have kitchen knives that I'm more concerned about harming myself with than this thing. That and it looks like a LOT of steel was lost in the process, I remember thinking the first thing when I got the sword was, "Hmm, I expected the blade to be a little thicker."
So I've yet to get to the store and pick up some of this stuff but I'll post some before/after shots when I'm done. Thanks again for the advice everyone.
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Post by Neil G. on Jul 25, 2011 16:27:47 GMT
I use either 3 in 1 oil or more recently Rem Oil (for guns). I'll clean the blade thoroughly and then put a few drops of 3 in 1 on the blade evenly distributed and then just wipe it with rags made from a clean, white cotton t-shirt that I've cut up and voila. The Rem Oil comes with a spray bottle and I'll do one good sized spritz per side and also wipe it with rag to distribute. The rag I use to distribute the oil has gotten so saturated at this point that I think I could probably just wipe the blades with it...
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Post by Sir Tre on Jul 25, 2011 23:19:13 GMT
hmmm gotta try that one some time. i use spray teflon wax
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Post by William Swiger on Jul 27, 2011 3:59:24 GMT
Sir Tre,
I used oil for the longest time but as the collection got larger, it was a pain in the ass. Have pets and the air quality where I currently live is not good. Blades would get a small collection of dust and stuff on them in a week. The car wax solved the problem and I have never had any issues. Also use saddle soap on my grips to protect them.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2011 11:25:27 GMT
I had that problem when I first started. Using my Katana, cuts were awesome. Using my single hand(classic medieval), I was having a hard time placing my cuts. Until, I brought the sword down at the same angle as the Katana. Not straight down, and not too much to the right. Given that you are cutting with your right and doing a forward swing from right to left. And once I found the sweet spot on the blade, because at first, I was hitting too far up the blade. Or further down from the tip. And it was batting the bottles.
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