George
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Post by George on Feb 27, 2011 11:19:44 GMT
As the topic suggests. Ive been thinking about this for a while now. Will prob seem like a silly question BUT is there any reason you cant blunt en your sharp katana to make an iaido sword? I mean ive been looking and most iai swords are $150+ Yet take the Musashi Bamboo for example its only $80 yet just as good isnt it? Wouldnt it make more sense to get the bamboo and blunt it yourself? Obviously i realise this isnt common otherwise iai swords wouldnt have a market. So why not? Is it simple as its dangerous to mess around with a sharp hardened edge with some form of angle grinder? Dont shy away in fear haha that wasnt my plan but you get my point  |
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Post by Hiroshi on Feb 27, 2011 17:17:55 GMT
you can absolutely do that. TomK has done it and really liked the way it came out.
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Post by Elheru Aran on Feb 27, 2011 20:19:28 GMT
Sure you can do it. As to why you would, that might be a little different. If you *already* have a cheap sword and you're willing to waste it, that's one thing. Buying a cheap sword just to make into an iaido blade, though, is maybe not really what I would do; I'd get a purpose built iai sword before I did that.
Mind you, I don't know how much good iai swords generally cost, and it may be that doing this is cheaper than buying a proper one. So I'll leave it at "not my thing" and let you do yours...
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George
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Post by George on Feb 27, 2011 21:18:24 GMT
Thanks guys this answer my question! Well i was comparing the iai blade (Cheness iai $179 to the Musashi Bamboo $80) I mean comparably i cant find a difference in these two just one is sharp one is blunt. So using that as a base for my idea, a sharp sword of the same build quality seems like the better idea |
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Post by Hiroshi on Feb 27, 2011 21:54:05 GMT
Well the only difference I could see would be the shape and weight, the musashi blades are super thin and light. Cheness blades are a little bigger and heavier.
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Post by Midori Kawakami on Feb 27, 2011 22:21:50 GMT
Iai blades are just that; they're built specifically for iaido. Most of them are of a type of metal that cannot be sharpened and used as a shinken (sharpened sword) such as zinc/aluminum alloy or stainless steel. There are a few carbon steel iaito, but they're rather high maintenance when you consider how often you touch the blade in iai.
There are a few companies outside of Japan that produce iaito, but the only ones that I've seen worth their salt that were not Japanese made are from Hanwei. The rest I have handled have had balance problems, problems with the fittings or with the blades themselves.
There are advantages to buying an iaito as an iaito; they come in many different weights and lengths to fit the size and skill level of the practitioner. An additional benefit of getting one of the Japanese-made zinc/aluminum alloy iaito is that, if you should ever wish to study in Japan, you could take your iaito with you. If the sword is of steel of any kind and not made in Japan, it will be confiscated and sent back or destroyed.
There's also some differences between the koshirae (fittings) of iaito and mass-produced shinken in general. Iaito koshirae tend to be much more plain, the reason being that, the less decoration there is, the less chance your hand will rub against it and cause blisters and calluses. It's definitely not a comfortable way to practice (I speak from experience) and can quickly take some of the joy out of the art.
That being said, there really isn't any reason you can't buy a sword and blunt it, but it's not something I would do. If the cost is what's holding you back, search after-market instead of retail. I got all of the iaito I've used secondhand, including the Hanwei Nami that I've been using for half a decade now. You can also check places like ebay; sometimes you can find some decent deals on iaito there. $179 for a decent iaito is a steal in the grand scheme of things, but that doesn't mean you can't find one any cheaper.
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Post by Maynar on Feb 27, 2011 22:47:11 GMT
I've wondered about this myself. I have considered blunting one of my Musasahis and start practicing iaido. As folks say, there's no reason why one can't do that. It's certainly the least expensive option. But the idea of buying a purpose-built blunt for practice makes sense as well. I kinda balk at paying $150-200 or more for a practice sword, unless I wanted something very specific. I did a quick search on ebay and found this: cgi.ebay.ca/Stainless-steel-Navy ... 588cd81185 It's $100 to my door from the US. If one is actively buying swords and parts etc, $100 is doable. As I said, it took me only a few minutes on ebay to find it.Plus, stainless would require less maintenance than HCS. Things that make ya go, "Hmmm..." |
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George
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Post by George on Feb 28, 2011 0:14:57 GMT
Its looking more like its a bit of a Silly idea really. Like it makes more sense to save up and get a purpose build sword. I mean the more im learning about iai the more i realise its gonna be a life long pursuit, so may as well start it off properly. Im going to look into it more, thanks Maynar, that looks like a good option too Input is great, gets the head working haha |
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Post by Midori Kawakami on Feb 28, 2011 22:20:34 GMT
Iai is indeed a life-long art, which is one of the things I adore about it. And that is one of the reasons to start out with an actual iaito. Later on, if you pursue it long enough, you might be using shinken, depending upon the school you end up attending. It's important to get a good iaito that feels comfortable to you. This will aid your form and safety as well, as it's much safer to use a sword you're comfortable with than one you're not.
Approximately where are you located? I could help you find a school if you'd like. ^ ^
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Post by 14thforsaken on Mar 1, 2011 1:16:20 GMT
Another thing to keep in mind is how experienced are you at sharpened/blunting a blade. If you don't do it right, there can still be places on the edge that are sharp and could injure someone.
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Post by iealchemist on Mar 1, 2011 1:29:39 GMT
I reckon the biggest part is that Iaido is more about learning the technique best rather than focusing on strength, which is why an iaito tends to be made of lighter materials.
Since it's lighter you can practice for longer before you get tired out, while steel is heavier and you preform less movements before you need to take a break.
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Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Mar 1, 2011 1:39:54 GMT
this is just me but...why not just use your sharp blade for iai and be careful? IMHO if you are using a sharp blade for iai it forces you to constantly be aware of what your doing and ensuring that everything you do is with maximum concentration and regard for safety. this is A GOOD habbit to be used to when handling you sword. if your always training with a blunt i feel youl get used to the fact that it cant realy hurt you or anyone else (other than maybe some bruises) and tend to overlook care and safety. ive never owned a blunt sword and what practice i do i use my real live blade and i have never been cut nor cut anybody. just my opinion feel free to contrast anything i said. i do understand if your training in a dojo or public gym it may be illegal to use a live blade, im speaking purely for at home training.
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George
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Post by George on Mar 1, 2011 2:02:43 GMT
Thats where my mind is heading anyway, i still need a Gi and Hakama anyway so i may as well just get a proper iai blade too I live in Australia, bout 2 hours North of Sydney. I found these guys: newcastleaikido.com/?page_id=64Thats where im looking at going. Well yeh im DEFIANTLY going to a Dojo, the more i read the more i realise you would be silly to try this at home. So live blade, especially for a beginner would be a big no-no. The amount of bad habits you would teach yourself would be ridiculous. Put it this way, i have 2 live blades ATM and i haven't cut a thing with them, all because im waiting to learn how to use one before i rush out like a bull at the gate. The other reason; I have read that you should respect a blunt blade just as much as a live blade. As it is teaching you how to, well basically to become a better person it should be shown as much respect as you would show anyone or anything that can shape you and/or teach you. Maybe 'better person' sounds a bit silly but thats the way i have understood the teachings of iaido in a very generalised fashion. So treat all Katanas as if they could easily wound or kill you. If that makes sense? |
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Post by 14thforsaken on Mar 1, 2011 2:06:11 GMT
I don't know about that. The last thing I would want is to be in a dojo with an untrained person with a sharp blade practicing next to me. Actually, I wouldn't go someplace else if a dojo allowed that.
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Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Mar 1, 2011 2:08:17 GMT
like i said in my post, im speaking purely for at home training. Not everybody can go to a dojo, the nearest dojo for me is 100 miles away. totally unpractical.
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Post by Student of Sword on Mar 1, 2011 2:44:52 GMT
Why don't you try a couple of correct noto (not looking at your saya, keep your eye on the targets) with a sharp blade and see how well it turn out? If you still have all your fingers, do a couple of correct draw-cut (again not looking at the saya, eyes on the target). In case this is not understood. I am being sarcastic, please don't do it. The out come is even worse if you try to do chiburi, you can cut your own head. There are many reasons that people don't do kata with sharp blade until they achieve high ranking. Furthermore, I recommend against self-teaching. There should no problem with back-yard cutting for fun as long as you are careful. But don't train "iai" by yourself. It is a fruitless endeavor and counter-productive. You will acquire all sort of bad habits that will prevent you from learning proper "iai" at the later date. Nihonzashi has class for people who live far from dojo. Reference: www.nihonzashi.com/samurai_sword_school.aspx |
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Post by Midori Kawakami on Mar 2, 2011 9:11:35 GMT
Ah, dojo run by Chiba-sensei's students. Should be a good place; Chiba-sensei is an excellent iaidoka and reputedly a good teacher. Looks worth dropping in on a class, at least. There's quite a few places you can order gi and hakama from, but you could always check and see if the dojo sells them, as some do. If they don't, they may be able to point you in the direction of a good, inexpensive supplier. If they can't, I have links for that, too.  They may also be able to help you with proper iaito sizing, because while it does vary from practitioner to practitioner, it also varies from school to school, so it's something to keep in mind. They may not even let you start off with an iaito, but rather a bokken. You may want to make a list of questions to ask the sensei when you visit. |
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George
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Post by George on Mar 2, 2011 9:46:18 GMT
Thanks so much for your help! They seemed like a good place when i rang them. Am planing on starting soon in the next month. Thats a good idea, a barrel of questions haha. Well i found this palce: www.budo-aoi.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=111But im not going to buy ANYTHING until i find out what the specific requirements are of the Dojo. I dont want to waste money! I have some Bokken BUT i do believe they are cheap wall hanger types. I only brought it for the 5 katana rack/stand. Which i got really cheap. So i have 5 Bokken sitting here cgi.ebay.com.au/LAST-SAMURAI-INSCRIPTION-HARDWOOD-BOKKEN-SET-/310299876181#ht_5060wt_921As you can see they dont seem functional ill have to check with the Sensei as i may have saved myself some money if they are 'ok' to use. But i liked the stand haha |
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George
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Post by George on Mar 2, 2011 9:56:06 GMT
Is there anyway to 'test' a Bokken to see how strong it is? i have 5 i dont mind if i actually 'break' or damage one?
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Post by Midori Kawakami on Mar 2, 2011 10:14:24 GMT
Glad I could help! ^_^
Budo-Aoi is a good place, but there are some cheaper. What you're looking at in that link will probably be what you need, though not all schools are alike in their requirements. It's definitely a good idea to find out from the sensei exactly what their requirements are before you purchase so you're not stuck with extra gi in the wrong color and have to pay for it twice.
You will probably have to get a different bokken if they start you out with them. Red oak would probably suffice, though I really like my white oak bokken (which is considerably more expensive than the commonly available red oak). I have a similar, much plainer eight sword rack. I need to get another. All the bokken are on the one we have.
There's not really any way to 'test' a bokken than to break it. Most schools won't have you sparring with bokken anyway, so you really only need it to hold up to repetitive motion. And most schools require the bokken have a plastic tsuba (hand guard) and rubber stopper.
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Herron's Flight by Brendan of Fable Blades
