admin
Site Admin
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Post by admin on Sept 5, 2007 12:10:37 GMT
No vouchers Paul? I hope you like the complete and critical review I composed for the people here. Technically, it is a discontinued item - and as stated in the review guidelines, vouchers are only provided for items currently in production... BUT, I am willing to make an exception - and I hope it goes some way towards alleviating the situation for you a bit, x 2 Vouchers on the way.
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on Sept 5, 2007 13:24:31 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2007 13:48:30 GMT
surprising response from clyde here and very counter productive..
every review is taken on its own merit and clyde seems to be saying his company is unfairly treated on this site..
you have to take the good with the bad, while his swords were good thery got rave reviews from here any many many people were told how good gen2 were thanks to this forum. When problems occur then you get the other side of the coin and it needs to be dealt with...in fact you seemked to be dealing with the problem admirably untill this post which has really turned me off Im afraid..
As someone said above the customer is always right. And to say you will replace the sword reviewed in this article 'this once' is staggering to me. Apart from any temper issues just take a look at the differences in thickness along the sword! One that was specially made I might add..
A well tempered sword will be able to taken on cardboard, tatami and plastic bottles without seeing the major bending we have seen in this review and others. A quality control problem has obviously occured, but because of how upfront clyde has been, and how he was so eager to put things right (apart from the fact that gen 2 swords done right are obviously awesome) then many of us, me inlcuded, were willing to hang in there and we trusted it to be sorted in the end...
I cant say that anymore as this response just seems totally against what weve seen so far.
Big shame, and I hope Clyde once he's had a chance to take stock will see this isnt the way to go..
unfortunately for clyde these days if a $50 masahiro can handle light targets without problems then we expect that as the bare minimum from a sword costing twice as much...be it a katana or not...
i will still be watching gen 2 with interest as they are the most exciting thing to happen to our price range for a long time. I will be holding back though till I see an improvement in the reviews coming through..
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Post by septofclansinclair on Sept 5, 2007 14:03:24 GMT
This is really unfortunate... while an issue with a sword can and should be presented and discussed, I feel quite saddened that Clyde would leave, but I am more concerned that it would be due to our actions that he is going.
Perhaps our standards are higher because Paul praises them so highly. Perhaps we, like Paul suggests, expect higher from Gen2 because we have been so routinely delivered higher quality products. I own a few different brands of swords, and my Gen2 swords are definitely my favorite. If more of us who had and were happy with Gen2 products spoke as often and as loudly about our good experiences as those who have had poor experiences (and this is not meant as a criticism to brenno, he has a right to detail his story here), perhaps Clyde would have felt encouraged to stay.
I think we started a thread purely for people who have had good experiences with Gen2. Maybe I shall go do that now.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2007 18:43:26 GMT
I don't know where Clyde was coming from in half of his post - I for one am completely turned off on any future windlass or hanwei purchase at this point: All the swords that I liked from those two companies have guaranteed issues that I refuse to deal with - Whippiness for the windlass(also not sharp), and for the hanwei's it's just plain bad build quality.
Though I had a less than ideal experience with Gen2, I'm still willing to buy from them, though i'm not sure If I will now. Such an immature retaliation based on such pure emotion and lacking any rational thought really makes it hard to respect the guy.
The fact of the matter is Gen2 has guaranteed that their swords will function in such a way, and when customers feel that they don't, they voice it. I'm sure that if I had a sword bend like this one, and I contacted clyde about it, and he said "it's your fault cuz you suck"(in not so many words) i'd be hurt but accept it at no discredit to clyde. The fact that he is willing to do so much for his customers speaks volumes, and I think he completely has missed out on all the POSITIVE feedback on Gen2.
Like many many others - he seems only to see what we say is bad about his swords. There's 10 good comments on gen2 for every bad one, at least... how could clyde miss that?
Oh well. Looks like I'll have to spend my money on Arms and Armor or Atrims now...
the $300 market is officially dead for me. Think I'll leave the forum too - it just got inhospitable.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2007 19:34:51 GMT
have to agree adam, i feel clydes post has done more to damage gen 2's reputation in my eyes than the quality control issues..
of course if someone is chopping wood, or multipole tatamis with very bad cutting form then the blade will roll..
a plastic bottle or cardboard might scratch it, but it will not severely roll or bend a well tempered blade. as someone else has said Ive seen a hell of alot more positive threads and comments on this site than negatives, and to have such an outburst over a perfectly resonable review which has highlighted a totally unacceptable sword strikes me as very strange..
im sure his post was written in the heat of the moment as it makes no sense. its a real shame as it has made the situation much worse and like you Adam I was still willing to buy gen 2, that response has made me think again..
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Post by rammstein on Sept 5, 2007 19:47:53 GMT
Well now that's we've got a little fiasco on our hands, rammstein feels a need to throw in some sound advice.
Lighten up. Clyde is obviously speaking emotionally. Please, leave the man alone. He's really a great guy and gen2 is still a fine company. Adam, I seem to remember you being a bit "immature" (if that's what you want to call it) when your sword bent. Yes, you have a viable claim of course.
Everyone, have you forogtten all of the great times here to contemplate leaving? Clyde, so you see something negative and you get emotional about it - I don't blame you, but please consider what you're posting. Adam, you've been here longer than I have. Our first discussion was on the topic of weight training, remember? What about that sword gen2 has been making for you, free of charge?
Seriously, we're all acting like 3 year olds. Kiss and make up, we're all good people.
A very miffed R+
edit: Ah, to be the voice of reason....
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2007 20:56:19 GMT
I know I haven't been here for very long but does the word overreaction fit? I have been looking around and soaking in everything I can about all swords especially Gen2 swords. I have read nothing but good things until a week ago and there were only a few of them. It must just be my bad luck but until I made my first order on a Gen2 I heard relatively no bad reviews. Then I order and the sh*t hits the fan. Bad reviews start coming out of the woodwork and Clyde leaves the Forum. I really do hope he reconsiders. First of all you can't take critism such as this personally. I know it is very hard especially if most of your customer base are inexperienced cutters. (no offense I am in this category). But you cannot tell a customer that they don't know what they are doing. It just doesn't sit well. I agree that proper form helps. But most people buy swords from Gen2 for there durability and if people start hacking away at that then what does he have? Thus, I do understand Clydes frustratation but I honestly believe that when someone posts a complaint about Gen2 (at least in the past) it was to help Clyde just as much as it was for our benifit. So to sum it up as far as I know the sword I ordered is fine (since I have seen no reviews I only assume). I for one am not going to let these events turn me off of Gen2 just yet. and Clyde I hope you understand that we only mean to help you to create the best product.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2007 20:57:28 GMT
i think adam was being sarcastic when he said he'll leave the forum too....i bloody hope so anyway?!?
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Post by rammstein on Sept 5, 2007 20:58:25 GMT
Hopefully he was. This is not the type of conversation to be usuing sarcasm, however.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2007 21:13:57 GMT
For the record I find this to be the friendliest forum I've ever been a member of, and still do. Some other forums I've been on had this kind of incident regularly. But the willingness of the folks on this site to encourage each others' interests and betterment will keep me coming back in a way no other forum has, and it's a mark of the caliber of the forumites how (generally) measured and levelheaded the discussion has been.
Karma to Rammstein, everyone kiss and make up!
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Post by rammstein on Sept 5, 2007 21:37:10 GMT
Thanks for the karma, it's not often I get to portray myself in a good light Glad you like it here Shayan. If I'm not mistaken, you were the one I pmed from myarmoury . Glad to see it's not just us native oddballs who like this place
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2007 22:56:00 GMT
I don't think it's fair to portray this as though Clyde suddenly went nuts at the first hint of a complaint about his swords. This has been an ongoing process over a few months time. Ever since the infamous incident when Clyde experimented with thinning out some blades (based upon customer and forumite requests no less) and the temper issue arose. After looking into it and discovering that there was a problem, Clyde assured us that things would be worked out. This isn't an overnight process, especially when dealing with a small business like Gen2 using a forge in a foreign country thousands of miles away where swords are hammered out individually. At the very beginning, Paul and I both tried to politely hint in our own ways that we give Clyde some time to experiment around and get things worked out. As time went on, Clyde kept us abreast of the progress and went out of is way to get any bad blades repaired or replaced, as he has always done. Still, the questions, doubts, and fears eventually began to roll in, and it seemed for a while at least half the people who bought G2s were complaining that they got a bad one. Some of those were plainly legit, while others were questionable. Even I eventually fell prey to the hoopla and began to question Clyde and his products, even though my experiences with Clyde and G2 have been fantastic. How long can someone go on, knowing he is trying to fix things and do right by his customers when every time he turns around there's a new doubt expressed or problem brought up. It has to get overwhelming. I think that's what happened to Clyde last night. He just got back from a stellar weekend with Hank Reinhardt, test flexing and test cutting with examples from his latest shipment of swords, and he gets back and there's yet another problem that somebody expects him to deal with. It's not that he isn't willing to deal with it, I think the pressure just got the better of him. In a way, I think we (and I'm just as guilty as anyone) have unwittingly taken advantage of Clyde's good nature and presence here on the forum. Clyde, fix this, Clyde fix that, Clyde can you do this/that for me, Clyde, when are you going to get around to ________ fill in the blank. Like I said unwittingly or unintentionally. I'm not saying anyone has asked or said anything outrageous or unreasonable, I think it's just the result of so many seemingly small issues that we've asked him to address. In emailing Clyde last night I voiced some of this, and he basically said it's not that by itself, that he welcomes constructive criticism, but that he doesn't see these same demands or doubts levelled at other makes. While we see bad reviews of other swords, he's right, how often does somebody say, I'm contacting Company X and demanding satisfaction, or my confidence in Company X has been shattered, I'll never buy again. Part of this certainly has to do with the fact that no other well known manufacturer has participated in the forum, so people tend not to vent as much, becuse there seems little point, as these other manufacturers aren't present here to help us. Again, though, see it from Clyde's perspective. He sees more criticisms and questions about his products than about others. Regardless of the intent or reasons behind this, he gets upset. It's human nature to become protective of something you've busted your arse creating from scratch, in this case, Gen2. Anyway, I will continue to support Clyde and Gen2, as long as he continues to strive toward a better product, and provide great customer service. I think people need to slow down a bit and be as willing to help Clyde as he has been to help us. As one of our members, and a notable swordmaker himself, has stated, there's definitely a good deal of potential there (with Gen2 that is), we just need to hang on and see where it goes. D'oh! I just saw Clyde's latest post where he describes some of this. Sorry about the repeat.
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on Sept 6, 2007 1:22:21 GMT
/index.cgi?action=display&board=swordreviews&thread=1189022028&page=1 Thats Clydes returning, calmer thread. I'm glad he is back in the fold as his presence here is invaluable to the people of this forum, and to Generation 2. Gen 2 is an asset to our community. So this is all nice now and everyone is calm and getting along again. So now that we're all back on board and calmed down I want to express my remaining concerns: One thing more though mate, I still havent heard you admit that the sword reviewed was an appalling example and shouldnt have slipped through. Regardless of the tempering have you seen the varying thickness up and down the blade? This sword was also meant to be a special order, that you were going to check yourself before it was sent? are you happy with the quality control process you currently employ or are you looking to make changes to it? every brand makes the odd dudd sword, however if a good quality controller picks up on it before it is sent out it is no problem. This doesnt seem to have happened in this case... Clyde did not answer this query in his subsequent posts. Right through this Clyde has notably not accepted that there is a problem with my sword. He did inspect it for me before it came. I sincerely believe that his expert opinion holds there is nothing wrong with my sword. Regarding the thinner section before the end of my blade where it swells out again his only answer was: "That is what people are wanting to lighten the blade to make them more Historically accurate is it not?" (quote from email) i.e. the thinning of the blade that Clyde asked for to try to make the blades historically accurate. Is it just me or is there meant to be a uniform even distal taper? Not 2 random thin sections in an otherwise thick stiff blade. So my final understanding is that my sword is not defective. It's actually how Gen 2s are made. There is some spring to the blade and obviously has some heat treat. But I can feel that it will take a set much more easily than my Practical Hanweis. Hanwei Practical Viking Flex Test.When I flexed my new pratcical viking nearly 90 degrees I could feel that it was not too far and I knew it would return to straight - it did. When I got the Scottish I flexed it about 2" but it didn't feel happy with it, So I stopped. I repeat - I did not flex test my Scottish past 2". I believe the thin spot gave it uneven stress, which makes flexing it unsafe. So my great concern, and having no other experience with G2, "does Clyde know what makes a good sword?" Yes the blade has a certain degree of spring to it, and does seem to be tempered. It will flex a bit and return to true. Does that mean it is the best sub US$300 sword available on the market. From my experience with the steel of my other blades - I don't believe this is so. Many of you do. My experience tells me that is not the case. Clyde has commendably stood up and offered to replace it, but my communications have given the understanding is that this is out of commitment to customer satisfaction, rather than admission that there is a fault in the product. He has handled and inspected this sword himself, and it is right to him. I hope that I have been calm and objective through this. I paid $325 for this sword and expected it to be better than my $160 Hanwei's, and my experience has been that it isn't. You are all welcome to share your good experiences on the forum, please. Regards Brendan ***edit*** The last email I got from Clyde he did say that the blade has a problem, and that he regrets that it got missed in their checks. He has sent my photos of the blade to the foundry.
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on Nov 17, 2007 0:40:11 GMT
For those wondering what ever happened to this sword please see here: /index.cgi?action=display&board=swordcustom&thread=1195259567&page=1
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