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Post by shadowhowler on Jul 1, 2010 2:09:12 GMT
Heh...
Been waiting for one of these horrible shows to use a sword I own, and they did. The latest epp they used a Cold Steel Gim sword... interesting choice.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2010 3:44:26 GMT
was show any good bro, and do you have a link?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2010 4:05:19 GMT
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Post by sicheah on Jul 1, 2010 4:21:25 GMT
Yeah looks like CS gim alright. I thought Sun Tzu was more of a strategist that a fighter? Oh well anything to get a show running.  Interesting to see a jian with Qing fittings on in a battle scene during the warring state period two thousand years ago. I guess the Chinese did know something about time travel back then. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2010 6:25:55 GMT
Noticing a lot of BS in this show. Supposedly Vlad's kilij is "better" than the jian because of its slashing power, but they completely ignore the existence of the dao and its cutting ability.
Points are detracted from the use of the flaming arrows on armored targets, but the flaming arrows were anti-material weapons of the time, not meant for firing directly at personnel. They would have used regular arrows for that.
Vlad's handcannon, with its tiny barrel length, wouldn't have been accurate to any more than maybe 20 yards, a distance that could easily be passed between extended reloading sessions.
However, the crossbow test seemed pretty biased to the repeating crossbow.
Now the Chinese "zhua" I had never even heard of. Really strange weapon; almost seems like it was pulled from stories and folklore rather than real battlefields just by how odd it is. Anybody know where I can get one?
I think a Chinese spear would have been a closer rival to what type of weapon the halberd is, though.
I honestly thought they could have gotten the same results they did by flipping a coin as they got through their "scientific" testing. Granted the show was kind of entertaining, but a little morbid, even for a "study" of warfare. Vlad was just a barbarian, anyway.
EDIT: Actually, I did some Googling into the "zhua" and I can find almost nothing about it. Was this even really used in warfare? It's a long iron pole with an iron claw on the end, fingertips made into sharp points. It just seems like a novelty item.
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Post by sicheah on Jul 1, 2010 13:38:27 GMT
The "claw" was also discussed in myarmoury here: www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=20052I myself doubt if it is used in warfare, because why would the Chinese go through the effort of forging a claw like shape when a simple club mace is suffice in doing the job? |
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Post by shadowhowler on Jul 1, 2010 16:42:34 GMT
was show any good bro, and do you have a link? The show is not very good... I only watch it to see what sort of weapons they will use and get a good laugh. I've seen windlass and Hanwei weapons used before... but this was the first time they used something I own, so I was somewhat happy just for that.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2010 17:36:00 GMT
i know what you mean... i saw one episode where they had a knight vs samurai... neither were really that trained, so what did it prove. besides, no recorded historical fight as such. but i wanted to see how they handled the gim, or was it just another version of a CS vid.
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Post by shadowhowler on Jul 1, 2010 17:56:23 GMT
i know what you mean... i saw one episode where they had a knight vs samurai... neither were really that trained, so what did it prove. besides, no recorded historical fight as such. but i wanted to see how they handled the gim, or was it just another version of a CS vid. They did Samurai Vs Viking... they SHOULD have done Knight Vs Samurai... everyone wants to see that, if even just for laughs! The Gim only got used for a few seconds... he did a couple thrusts and 4-5 cuts. I was surprised actually, they billed the guy as a weapons champion, but his cutting only looked so-so. I think a lot of Wushu/Weapons guys in CMA don't actually cut anything, they do mainly forms, and that might be part of the problem. You have to cut stuff to really get a sense of what the impact feels like and how it will effect your movements. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2010 18:07:55 GMT
I think its laughable how they tested who would be the deadliest warrior. The people on that show take it so seriously its funny.
- For Sun Tzu to have gotten staked, he would have already lost. There was no point to that test only to add more content to the show.
- The kilij rivaling the katana? Ive seen a katana slice through pigs with minimal effort (im sure we all have), yet this guy seemed to put a lot of strength into those cuts. The techniques used with the jian arent meant for slicing opponents in half anyway. Its about quick, precise and deceptive movements. I dont need to cut you in half to sever major arteries and nerves.
- Comparing a halberd with a claw-on-a-stick? Really?! Comparing, hmm...halberd with halberd might be better. Clearly Vlad's halberd is a better weapon, so they should have paired it against something that had more of a chance.
- A major and hilarious flaw I found during the fight scene was when Sun Tzu fired one of the flaming arrows at Vlad. If Sun Tzu was the master at strategy and weapons, wouldnt he have known that an arrow wrapped in cloth wouldnt be the best thing for armor penetration? If thats all he had, he would have aimed at Vlad's legs or face.
It may seem weird to read this, but my money is on Vlad. Why? He was more of a warrior than Sun Tzu. If I know correctly, Sun Tzu was mostly a strategist who wasnt fighting as much as his soldiers. Therefore, in a one on one fight, Vlad would win. With an army, Sun Tzu would win. This comparison is like apples to oranges and is unfair, I think.
I also want something clarifyed. They said Sun Tzu was a ruthless warmonger who massacred millions and wrote "The Art of War" with his enemies' blood. This seems like just a story to me. I mean, its the first time ive heard Sun Tzu ever being called a warmonger.
Anyway, sorry for my rant. I just get angry at these martial art/weapon shows sometimes. Every once in awhile, they manage to air something worth watching, but most of it is just pure entertainment. Maybe I expect too much out of today's media and overlook things.
EDIT: You're right, fleetingwave. The zhua was not a weapon of war. It was sort of in the same category as the rope dart and hook sword. Fancy weapons, but not practical on the battlefield.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2010 18:29:49 GMT
yeah one of those darned youtube anime kids posted on a vid of cs gim the the katana is historically the best made sword ever because he saw it on deadliest warrior... what a goober... i told him he needs to get off the tv and into the dojo more.
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Post by shadowhowler on Jul 1, 2010 18:36:19 GMT
yeah one of those darned youtube anime kids posted on a vid of cs gim the the katana is historically the best made sword ever because he saw it on deadliest warrior... what a goober... i told him he needs to get off the tv and into the dojo more. But... the katana can cut a car in half!!! Did you know that?  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2010 18:38:04 GMT
yeah one of those darned youtube anime kids posted on a vid of cs gim the the katana is historically the best made sword ever because he saw it on deadliest warrior... what a goober... i told him he needs to get off the tv and into the dojo more. But... the katana can cut a car in half!!! Did you know that? Psh. A katana can cut a tank in half! ;D Get your facts straight. Lightsabers can barely do that. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2010 20:33:27 GMT
Somebody needs to send me a winning lottery ticket so i can have a nice twist-core DH Han dynasty dao made by Jin-Shi just to prove the supersword myth. That sucker would cut ten tanks in half before to polish was even damaged. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2010 21:23:12 GMT
Actually Sun Tzu led his soldiers into battle constantly. He was a fighter, and a strategist.
There was one time he put himself and his soldiers on a suicidal point to get them to fight to the death, I cannot recall the battle. It was his belief that if you put a man in an escapable situation, they loose all fear and become better warriors.
Basically the battle was:
1. His lord's lands were under attack by a massive force, so he led an army to one of the enemies most important cities. This caused his enemies to turn around and head back to protect the city, as the general that was leading the enemy army had committed mistakes and needed to redeem himself.
2. When attacking outposts/other villages while sparing no one he decided to split his army. He took the larger portion and headed towards the city, the enemies then chased them into the banks of a river (suicidal position)... From there Tzu's 2nd portion of his army came back and did a pincer attack on the larger enemy army...
3. Tzu wins.
Through out all these battle Sun Tzu did indeed fight WITH his army and did not stand behind ordering troops.
@deadliest Warrior
Horrible ideology that goes behind the show. "Whatever cuts more with one strike wins.." ??
Since when does your head cut off, and a stab to the heart differ in the result?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2010 23:09:35 GMT
Horrible ideology that goes behind the show. "Whatever cuts more with one strike wins.." ?? Since when does your head cut off, and a stab to the heart differ in the result? amazing... you didnt realize that a person only dies when decapitated... didnt you watch highlander movies... there can be only one...LOL these guys are a joke. they only think it takes a sword to win and forget all about swordsmanship. i saw one show where they hypothesized that since an arrow designed to penetrate armor could, then the bow was better than the sword in armor knight battle... duh. what if the arrow misses, and the knight makes it to the line... poor longbowman. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2010 23:41:36 GMT
Horrible ideology that goes behind the show. "Whatever cuts more with one strike wins.." ?? Since when does your head cut off, and a stab to the heart differ in the result? amazing... you didnt realize that a person only dies when decapitated... didnt you watch highlander movies... there can be only one...LOL these guys are a joke. they only think it takes a sword to win and forget all about swordsmanship. i saw one show where they hypothesized that since an arrow designed to penetrate armor could, then the bow was better than the sword in armor knight battle... duh. what if the arrow misses, and the knight makes it to the line... poor longbowman. -Nevermind I understood the joke... Sorry :<- Anyways swordsmanship> weapon. Even a wooden stick is deadly when wielding by the right person. A conven steel plate is very very difficult to impossible to penetrate with a bow and arrow... A two handed crossbow/bolt would do the trick. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2010 0:35:27 GMT
Tell that to the French knights in the battle of Agincourt when they were on the receiving end of Welsh longbow.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2010 1:55:22 GMT
Tell that to the French knights in the battle of Agincourt when they were on the receiving end of Welsh longbow. We'll I have seen longbows pierce badly made modern steel armor quite easily in short distances 10~ feet... but can they at longer distances? Also most archers would aim upwards towards the sky so their arrows would come down/rain.. In which case they often hit the helmet and slid down to the often unprotected neck.. Even in close range a square hit would produce at most 1-2 inch deep wound on the soldier... Here's some info. forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=27695 |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2010 2:26:45 GMT
Tell that to the French knights in the battle of Agincourt when they were on the receiving end of Welsh longbow. The win at Agincourt was not due to the longbow having an ability to penetrate armor. The main effect of the bow was really because the arrows struck the unprotected neck, sides, and flanks of the horses in the French calvary. They were hit by the opening English arrows in downward raining volleys; which caused extreme chaos as the horses panicked. The horses turned for the most part and ran down the French infantry, which broke their lines and disorganized them. The main French assault further ran into problems as the men-at-arms worked their way slowly through toward the English lines, but were bogged down by mud from the rain the day before. The majority of French dead were dispatched in melee combat in the muck, not by arrows. By all accounts, the French men-at-arms were able to walk though tens of thousands of arrows shots with nearly no casualties. It was the exertion of reaching the English line that killed them more than anything, as they had almost no energy left to fight. The English men at arms and archers killed off the French easily with their swords, hatchets, maces, or whatever else was at hand. Just wanted to drop a little history in there... |
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Interesting to see a jian with Qing fittings on in a battle scene during the warring state period two thousand years ago. I guess the Chinese did know something about time travel back then.
