Major, Cory J.~
Member
"Who can separate a man from his sword? One is worth nothing without the other." -Kalebipoeg
Posts: 558
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Post by Major, Cory J.~ on Feb 5, 2010 21:32:23 GMT
I purchased this Knights of Columbus sword at an estate auction while back (for a whopping $5!!!) and I kept up the on the cleaning of the blade as much I could (even though I never got it perfect when i first got it.). The blade appears to NOT be stainless as it very quickly likes to take hold of rust and tarnish problems when in humid house (like I am talking hours here, not in its scabbard.) It seems to have a full tang, as it has a peened pommel to it. But what I am interested in is if there a way to DE-peen the sword so that a new grip could be fashioned and overall maintenance could be preformed. I know this is meant to be a ceremonial sword, but it still would like to be cleaned up (the previous owner had taken silver spray paint to "re-chrome" the guard and pommel.... ) I have prepared a short video showing what I am talking about.
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Post by Dan Davis on Feb 6, 2010 0:28:15 GMT
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Major, Cory J.~
Member
"Who can separate a man from his sword? One is worth nothing without the other." -Kalebipoeg
Posts: 558
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Post by Major, Cory J.~ on Feb 6, 2010 0:42:50 GMT
Hmmm kinda late now, but No matter what I'm keeping this one. I already cut the handle off and now I am working on removing the pommel.
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Major, Cory J.~
Member
"Who can separate a man from his sword? One is worth nothing without the other." -Kalebipoeg
Posts: 558
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Post by Major, Cory J.~ on Feb 6, 2010 0:43:24 GMT
pommel off. Update: After getting the pommel off i cleaned up the tang a bit (covered in some surface rust and black paint), on the tang/blade (its hidden by the guard) LYNCH & KELLY UTICA N.Y. and on the actual tang is the word : GERMANY
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Post by Dan Davis on Feb 6, 2010 0:46:33 GMT
How did you remove them? Be aware that the fittings could be silver plated brass, silver plated aluminum, or even solid silver depending on the age and maker, so be careful until you know. I wish I could see it but Ontario is too far to drive tonight
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Major, Cory J.~
Member
"Who can separate a man from his sword? One is worth nothing without the other." -Kalebipoeg
Posts: 558
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Post by Major, Cory J.~ on Feb 6, 2010 0:49:24 GMT
I updated my last post, thought I could beat you, I also have a similar Knights Templar sword, that I got at the same Auction, would you like pictures of that?
I also have the scabbard for the KoC sword as well. It needs work too...
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Major, Cory J.~
Member
"Who can separate a man from his sword? One is worth nothing without the other." -Kalebipoeg
Posts: 558
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Post by Major, Cory J.~ on Feb 6, 2010 0:53:07 GMT
Oh right to answer your question, I chiseled off the handle as it was seriously dented and banged up on the one side. then once it was off, I pushed the pommel down a bit and lightly hammered the peen off and away from the blade so the pommel could be lightly pulled off.
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Post by Dan Davis on Feb 6, 2010 1:03:36 GMT
That would be the way to do it. Fitting it back up should be a breeze.
L & K are not nearly as valuable as Pettibone Bros. so Your were probably looking at $30 to $50 for the sword; therefore no big loss. They etched the blades themselves but L & K DID use solingen blades. So it is good steel.
Also, you are more likely to have a silver-plated base metal for the fittings so if you decide to clean off the paint with solvents be cautious about it.
Oh yes, pics of the Masonic Templar sword would be nice.
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Major, Cory J.~
Member
"Who can separate a man from his sword? One is worth nothing without the other." -Kalebipoeg
Posts: 558
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Post by Major, Cory J.~ on Feb 6, 2010 1:20:30 GMT
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Major, Cory J.~
Member
"Who can separate a man from his sword? One is worth nothing without the other." -Kalebipoeg
Posts: 558
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Post by Major, Cory J.~ on Feb 6, 2010 1:31:17 GMT
UMMM does this mean I found something rare? Found at www.templarhistory.com/swords.htmlHistory Of American Sword Manufacturers Frank Henderson Frank Henderson, a prominent citizen in Kalamazoo Michigan and whose home, the Henderson - Royce Castle is a prominent site to this day, began selling and manufacturing swords and regalia in 1850. He remained in the business for nearly a half century until his death in 1899. The company he began would remain active until it was dissolved in 1923. Initially Henderson sold swords under his own name Frank Henderson and would continue to do so until he formed a partnership with Theron F Giddings in 1871. The new company, Henderson and Giddings Co. was a short lived venture and in 1873, Henderson resumed trade as Frank Henderson. From this time Henderson began an association with the Ames Sword Company and as an agent distributed their line of fraternal swords and regalia. This relationship continued for two decades at which time, in 1893, he consolidated his affairs with Ames and formed the Henderson Ames Company. Henderson bought out the E. A. Armstrong Regalia Factory, including all machinery and inventories a year later. After Henderson's death in 1899 the company continued on for the next twenty-four years when it was purchased and dissolved by The M. C. Lilley and Company.The M. C. Lilley and Company purchased the Ames Sword Company in 1925 and in the same year change their name to The Lilley Company. The newly acquired equipment was moved from Chicopee MA, to Columbus Ohio. In 1931 they became the Lilley-Ames Company continued on for another two decades but due to a lack of diversity in their product line began to fail. C. E. Ward bought them out in 1951 and at this time began to manufacture badges. Chronology Of Major American Sword Manufacturers With the chronological list below you should be able to get a rough date as to when your sword was made. For example if your sword carries the markings of Henderson Ames, then it was manufactured sometime between 1893 and 1929. 1850 - 1871 Frank Henderson 1871 - 1873 Henderson and Giddings 1873 - 1893 Frank Henderson 1893 - 1923 Henderson Ames (Henderson Died In 1899)1923 - 1925 The M. C. Lilley and Company 1925 - 1931 The Lilley Company 1931 - 1951 Lilley-Ames Company 1951 - 1953 Lilley-Ames Company (Badge Maker New Ownership)
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Post by Dan Davis on Feb 6, 2010 2:16:53 GMT
No, this is a Knight's Templar Masonic Sword, not your average run of the mill Masonic Lodge sword.. an order within an order, if you will. This one is not too rare, but definitely an antique and rare enough to be valuable.
Especially since the line just underneath "Armstrong" says "c. 1901"; making it just under 110 years old. The line above "ARMSTRONG" says "E A", so it is definitely identified as to maker.
The fittings on that one are silver-plated brass while the inlay in the grip is fine silver. The grip itself is burl walnut. It is probably in the $250-$400 price range; I'll do a lookup later.
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Major, Cory J.~
Member
"Who can separate a man from his sword? One is worth nothing without the other." -Kalebipoeg
Posts: 558
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Post by Major, Cory J.~ on Feb 6, 2010 2:19:11 GMT
WOW, now this one I may be willing to sell, as I need money for newer swords that I can actually use. and since I only bought it for 20 bucks, and I have no family or friends in the order, I don't feel to bad about selling!!!
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Post by Dan Davis on Feb 6, 2010 2:36:03 GMT
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Major, Cory J.~
Member
"Who can separate a man from his sword? One is worth nothing without the other." -Kalebipoeg
Posts: 558
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Post by Major, Cory J.~ on Feb 6, 2010 2:45:19 GMT
wow just wow, started a thread to get a handle changed and I found out I was harboring a "valuable" antique that had nothing to do with the original thread! LOL
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Post by genocideseth on Feb 6, 2010 3:04:49 GMT
If you were to sell it, how much would you sell it for? I might be interested, seeing shipping would not be bad. We are both in Canada. ;D
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Major, Cory J.~
Member
"Who can separate a man from his sword? One is worth nothing without the other." -Kalebipoeg
Posts: 558
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Post by Major, Cory J.~ on Feb 6, 2010 3:09:48 GMT
PM sent
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Major, Cory J.~
Member
"Who can separate a man from his sword? One is worth nothing without the other." -Kalebipoeg
Posts: 558
|
Post by Major, Cory J.~ on Feb 6, 2010 13:14:50 GMT
OH RIGHT! Back to the original question, how would I go about getting the first sword back (or close) to its former glory? (More so a question about the blemishes on the blade, and where can I get the fittings re-plated with silver?
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Post by sicheah on Feb 7, 2010 4:21:33 GMT
Not to sound too rude but the best thing is to do to an antique is leave it alone. Doing something to it like removing blemish might end up removing some of the patina and reduce its value.
Edit: Of course I am a nobody when it comes to antique sword, but I've seen some really good blade damaged when owners try to polish or remove blemish/rust and restore the blade to its former glory.
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Major, Cory J.~
Member
"Who can separate a man from his sword? One is worth nothing without the other." -Kalebipoeg
Posts: 558
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Post by Major, Cory J.~ on Feb 7, 2010 4:44:48 GMT
no the one I'm working on was decided WASN'T an antique that was the other one. The one in the video is only like 20 years old, and I want to give it some more "luster" as I really adore this blade. Then I'm making a new handle and hopefully getting it re-silver plated. But the black spots on the blade NEED to be fixed somehow.
The antique one is being left AS IS, and I have contacted a buyer/seller, who Dan Davis recommended to me, who hopefully appraise it, and perhaps buy it. (I would like a another *functional* medieval sword more than a antique Templar sword....I think anyways...)
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Post by sicheah on Feb 7, 2010 5:10:49 GMT
Sorry I've misread your post.
In that case you could bring some luster and remove some blemish with polishing paste like Noxon 7. They remove light surface rust and blemish pretty well.
If Noxon can't remove it, you might want to try more abrasive polish like Nevr dull or Flitz, but those have more aggressive polish and may alter the initial polish of the blade.
Work with the least abrasive polish first (Noxon) then followed by more abrasive ones (Nevr Dull and then Flitz).
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