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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2010 13:14:12 GMT
Hey all, just got a question that's been worrying me lately.
I was reading around on a swedish sword store and they mentioned it was a bad idea to keep a sword in it's sheat especially after coming inside during humid days.
That got me wondering, is it a bad idea in general to have your swords in their sheats? Would it be better to wrap them in cloth or something?
I don't really know if this would apply to me either as I currently only have my swords on display and don't take them outside or do any cutting with them.
What do you more experieced collectors and cutters think?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2010 13:53:34 GMT
...We have sword stores? o.O
But on topic: The way I've heard is, keeping the sword in the sheath is a bad idea since it can trap moisture inside and cause the sword to rust.
I think you're actually supposed to keep your swords oiled when not in use. Personally, I don't bother - the only sword I care enough about to not keep in a state of dissassembly all over the place hangs unoiled on my wall right now. I occasionally polish it off with steel wool but that's just vanity on my part; I don't really think I have to since it doesn't seem to patinate at all. (Of course, I don't use it for cutting either.)
Over-all, I think it will depend largely on the climate.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2010 15:03:51 GMT
...We have sword stores? o.O Well that might just have been badly phrased, a site for sword purchases in sweden www.gavelins.com/sword/index.htmlBut on topic: The way I've heard is, keeping the sword in the sheath is a bad idea since it can trap moisture inside and cause the sword to rust. I think you're actually supposed to keep your swords oiled when not in use. Personally, I don't bother - the only sword I care enough about to not keep in a state of dissassembly all over the place hangs unoiled on my wall right now. I occasionally polish it off with steel wool but that's just vanity on my part; I don't really think I have to since it doesn't seem to patinate at all. (Of course, I don't use it for cutting either.) Over-all, I think it will depend largely on the climate. I see, moisture trapping with rust results sounds bad. Though I keep my rust capable swords oiled so that should be no problem. I take it you are swedish too? Nice to see another countryman if that's the case. Thank you for the answer, a quick off topic question for you. Where do you get your swords from?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2010 15:09:05 GMT
I never store my swords in a sheath for any length of time. I also keep a light coating of 3 in 1 machine oil on the baldes that I occasionally, wipe off and reapply. Haven't had any problems with rust and I live in a pretty humid area.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2010 15:32:52 GMT
I never store my swords in a sheath for any length of time. I also keep a light coating of 3 in 1 machine oil on the baldes that I occasionally, wipe off and reapply. Haven't had any problems with rust and I live in a pretty humid area. How do you store them then? just plain with no sheats on stands?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2010 15:36:02 GMT
I use extra virgin olive oil and I just keep my blades oiled. When I want to use them, wipe the oil off, use, reapply oil.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2010 15:40:17 GMT
For long time storage I have them wrapped in slightly oily rags and kept in a locked chest where my children can't get at them. I periodically take them out to clean off and re-oil. I generally only have 1 or 2 blades out on display or to work on at a time as I really don't have a good/safe place to display them with a 5 and 3 year old runing around.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2010 15:56:41 GMT
Ye children definetly make it difficult to have any swords on display, so that way of storing it sounds smart.
Thanks for all the replies and ideas
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Post by ShooterMike on Jan 25, 2010 16:09:28 GMT
I think it depends on how the sheaths or scabbards are made (they are not the same thing). Most sheaths keep leather in contact with the blade, which is very bad for long-term storage. I have quite a few of these and would never store a sword in them.
Scabbards can be made of various materials, but the most common materials are wood and fiberglass. Many of the better quality wood core scabbards will have felt or wool linings. I display most of my swords that have higher end scabbards in the scabbard with a good coating of 3-in-1 oil applied. The oil impregnates into the scabbard lining and acts to prevent moisture buildup. So far (3 years or so) I've not had any problems with rust or any types of corrosion using this method.
But as always... your results may vary.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2010 16:41:19 GMT
I think it depends on how the sheaths or scabbards are made (they are not the same thing). Most sheaths keep leather in contact with the blade, which is very bad for long-term storage. I have quite a few of these and would never store a sword in them. Scabbards can be made of various materials, but the most common materials are wood and fiberglass. Many of the better quality wood core scabbards will have felt or wool linings. I display most of my swords that have higher end scabbards in the scabbard with a good coating of 3-in-1 oil applied. The oil impregnates into the scabbard lining and acts to prevent moisture buildup. So far (3 years or so) I've not had any problems with rust or any types of corrosion using this method. But as always... your results may vary. This was news to me, didn't know there was a difference. If a scabbard has a wood core and no felt or wool lining is it still safe to store a sword in them long term or is it only if they have linings? Thank you for the informative post.
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Post by ShooterMike on Jan 25, 2010 16:51:49 GMT
I think it depends on how the sheaths or scabbards are made (they are not the same thing). Most sheaths keep leather in contact with the blade, which is very bad for long-term storage. I have quite a few of these and would never store a sword in them. Scabbards can be made of various materials, but the most common materials are wood and fiberglass. Many of the better quality wood core scabbards will have felt or wool linings. I display most of my swords that have higher end scabbards in the scabbard with a good coating of 3-in-1 oil applied. The oil impregnates into the scabbard lining and acts to prevent moisture buildup. So far (3 years or so) I've not had any problems with rust or any types of corrosion using this method. But as always... your results may vary. This was news to me, didn't know there was a difference. If a scabbard has a wood core and no felt or wool lining is it still safe to store a sword in them long term or is it only if they have linings? Thank you for the informative post. You are welcome. To my way of thinking, a sheath is fairly soft and flexible, a scabbard is rigid, no matter what they are made of. I have seen sheaths made from various types of leather and fabrics. The key thing about them is that they are very flexible and can fold up. I've seen a few scabbards made only from leather. But they were very stiff and rigid, holding their shape with or without a sword. I have a few wood core scabbards that are unlined. I've not had any trouble keeping swords in them long-term, as long as they are well oiled. However, I know these scabbards are made of stabilized poplar, as they are all custom pieces from either Christian Fletcher or Brian Kunz. Stabilized poplar doesn't leech any "tree sap" type oils that could be corrosive. So I guess what I'm saying is, be careful and test for a bit before trusting anything you aren't sure about.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2010 17:05:40 GMT
This reminds me: I read somewhere that Japanese shirasaya are supposed to be air tight and dustproof if made right, since they are basically storage containers for the sword is not in use. They'd have a wooden blade in the actual koshirae, which could be on display, and then when the sword would be used they could just switch out the wooden blade for the real one. Nice! This could come in handy. Likewise. Well, I'm not a big-time collector. To tell the truth I would rather make them then buy them, but I haven't got the resources. When I do buy, it's more about finding a sword I'm satisfied with, rather then collecting various specimen. The sword I mentioned is an antique Dutch saber. I bought it from these guys: www.edgedweapons.nl/ (I had to do some repairs and polishing, but it was a really good deal.) Otherwise, I own an DSA Squire Sword and Elf Dagger, but I was never really satisfied with them. And everything else I have is pretty much fleamarket junk.
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Post by YlliwCir on Jan 25, 2010 17:25:10 GMT
I have some woodcore scabbards that I keep my swords stored in without any problems for the most part. I have leather sheaths that I can't keep swords in for very long without having issues. This is a general rule and there are exceptions. I have a couple swords I keep in their leather sheaths without any issues and I have had rare problems with woodcore scabbards. What I do is keep the sword in the scabbard at first and check it often. If it has issues I just don't use anything to store it in. I use a silicone sprayed on and wiped lightly on all my blades, this has worked well. After use I clean them with mineral spirits or nevr-dull depending on how dirty I got them.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2010 17:26:59 GMT
I dont do much cutting especially this time of year (to dam cold).Most of my swords hang up on the wall out of their scabbards or in a stand.Instead of oiling them i keep a good coating of expensive carnuba wax (Mothers carnuba gold) on them.The wax keeps the moisture off them kind of like waxing a car,wipe it on and polish it off and after many years no rust or stains on any of my swords.
t
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2010 17:32:07 GMT
This was news to me, didn't know there was a difference. If a scabbard has a wood core and no felt or wool lining is it still safe to store a sword in them long term or is it only if they have linings? Thank you for the informative post. You are welcome. To my way of thinking, a sheath is fairly soft and flexible, a scabbard is rigid, no matter what they are made of. I have seen sheaths made from various types of leather and fabrics. The key thing about them is that they are very flexible and can fold up. I've seen a few scabbards made only from leather. But they were very stiff and rigid, holding their shape with or without a sword. I have a few wood core scabbards that are unlined. I've not had any trouble keeping swords in them long-term, as long as they are well oiled. However, I know these scabbards are made of stabilized poplar, as they are all custom pieces from either Christian Fletcher or Brian Kunz. Stabilized poplar doesn't leech any "tree sap" type oils that could be corrosive. So I guess what I'm saying is, be careful and test for a bit before trusting anything you aren't sure about. That's great to finally know, been going all this time thinking they where the same thing. I understand the difference now, so I really have scabbards. Anyhow I keep the one true carbon steel well oiled and I haven't noticed any rust on it so far. I will then keep checking whenever I oil it for any rust but keep them in scabbards for most part. Thank you once again. Sounds interesting, though I have little to no japanese language skills so thoose names tell me little. I hope it will, it's design makes it feel shady to me. So far I ordered sword oil and just yesterday I ordered the first sword from there so I'll leave my final judgement on the trust worthiness on this site to when I recieve it. So far it seems allright, and I heard other swede's reccomend it too. There are a few other sites for swedish sellers if you are interested, but most of them have pretty big price tags. Especially when compared to american options, as long as you don't get some extra costs from the importing itself that is. I see, im no big collector myself. I got a grand four swords if I count the recent purchase and only two of thoose four are made from carbon steel and got proper edges. An antique saber sounds like it requires more caretaking skills than I got, being a novice with sword care doesn't translate well if I have to do repairs and polish. Frankly I can't do repairs at all so im stumped at that part. If you ever do manage to start up some kind of sword creation it would be interesting to see what you can make. Good luck with that. And flea market junk things, I have one sword that is probably even below that quality. The very first sword I purchased, from Hobbex, ye... it's really terrible quality. But for 500 kr it's really bottom priced in sweden, for bottom quality as well of course. Good advice and good to hear it confirmed by more people, thank you.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2010 23:02:24 GMT
Sounds interesting, though I have little to no japanese language skills so thoose names tell me little. Well, on a Japanese sword the koshirae is the hilt, scabbard and everything else that isn't the actual blade. The "outfit" so to speak. Japanese swords are designed to allow disassembly and IINM, some samurai had several koshirae sets for the same blade. A shirasaya is a plain wood scabbard and plain wood handle, nothing else. They're not meant to hold up to actual use; in fact trying to cut something with a shirasaya mounted sword is considered a rather bad idea. As I said, they're basically storage containers. Looks like they are mostly a retailer for swords made by other companies. In fact, you can probably find some of them in the review section. I don't know who makes those replica Swedish swords, though. Sounds interesting. I'd appreciate if you'd PM them to me. Well, I'm no expert either, so my repairs are kinda ad hoc. Heck, I fixed the loose hilt by putting duct-tape on the inside of the cap. Then again, I try not to be intimidated by the fact that it's old; it's still my sword and if I find something wrong with it I'll just do my best to fix it. Besides, I only payed around 2000 kr for it. (Like I said, for an antique it was a good deal.) At some point, I plan on filing down the sides of the round nut holding it all together (which is probably considered some kind of crime against history) so I can pick it apart and put it together easier, and I'll probably make a whole new grip as well, since the original horn one is a bit chipped and, frankly, doesn't allow as secure a grip as I'd like. Mostly been designing lately. Right now I'm trying to build full scale models in aluminum for fun and practice. I might put the results up on the design forum if I get far enough. I have three sabers from India, two of which at least had kinda decent blades. I think they must have cost 300-400 kr all together. (They were literally bought at flea markets.) I think they are either souvenirs or Sikh ceremony swords. There's also a stainless Chinese wallhanger thing I bought at Second Hand for fun, and some homemade stuff I made back when I still had acces to a smithy - mostly half-finished projects I've given up on since they are no longer up to my standards.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2010 23:24:37 GMT
I keep mine in their stabilized poplar scabbards if they have them. I kinda don't like to keep them out because the dust here is horrible (the black shelf I keep them on turns grey a week after being dusted) and I've heard how dust can hold moisture.
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Post by enkidu on Jan 26, 2010 0:53:23 GMT
Humidity is a problem where i live, and the only sword i dared leave in its leather sheath have been damaged, rust spots, dark patina etc. But in wooden scabbards never got any problem. Once a month i put a bit of polishing product on the blades and oil them after cutting, most of my swords are hanged on the wall without scabbards. I dont get any rust problems except from the friends who like to touch the blades with their fingers...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2010 10:47:47 GMT
Sounds interesting, though I have little to no japanese language skills so thoose names tell me little. Well, on a Japanese sword the koshirae is the hilt, scabbard and everything else that isn't the actual blade. The "outfit" so to speak. Japanese swords are designed to allow disassembly and IINM, some samurai had several koshirae sets for the same blade. A shirasaya is a plain wood scabbard and plain wood handle, nothing else. They're not meant to hold up to actual use; in fact trying to cut something with a shirasaya mounted sword is considered a rather bad idea. As I said, they're basically storage containers. Ah I see so they can customise their swords as they wish? and the Shirasaya is a storage variant where they just put the blade into wooden parts to store it? or that would be the jist of it if I understood it right. Ye that's true, some paul chen stuff I think has been reviewed on this site. Well I get the impression they made the swedish ones, but hard to be sure of anything in this day and age. Will do Yikes, well I guess it comes down to maybe how much money we got to spend and what kind of price levels we are used to. Personally I'm on a pretty low budget so anything over 800 kr is very valuable to me and I take good care of it. And im pretty paranoid in general with pricey things, so maybe you are just more hands on and braver on experimenting. Oh well designs are interesting too, especially if they end up becoming full fledged blades in the future. Wow that's really cheap for three swords together, ye I can imagine that aint great quality. Probably all rat tail tang's too, or are they solid? Sounds like fun to have had access to a smithy, not that I ever tried any smithing myself. Well I don't know if dust can hold moisture but I wouldn't be all that suprised if they do. Better safe than sorry I suppose X D Sheez why do people like to touch blades with bare fingers? XD I always cringe when I see people do it on movies or on clips on the internet. Dang spots.. Don't the oil get them to stay away? So far I haven't had any people over that tried fingering on my swords, luckily..
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2010 14:46:04 GMT
Ah I see so they can customise their swords as they wish? and the Shirasaya is a storage variant where they just put the blade into wooden parts to store it? or that would be the jist of it if I understood it right. That's the gist of it. Though I don't think customization was the main point as much as maintances, and I believe the blade was also put in shirasaya for transportation to and/or from sharpening. Well, I don't actually have a high income, but I don't have much in the way of expenses either. Thus, it tends to pile up over time. Basically, I'm pretty comfortable buying a sword in this price range once a year or so, but I have yet to invest in anything really expensive. As for paranoia about expensive things, I'm a bit the other way around: I don't really trust cheap stuff, and I think spending a little on a poor sword is a greater loss then spending a lot on a good one. They have pretty good tangs, actually. Kinda slim, but I wouldn't call them rat tails. Like I said, two of the blades are pretty decent. (And even the bad one is badly warped from heat treatment, which at least proves that it is heat treated.) I've been warned that the metal may not by of very good quality, though, and the hilts were unbelivably cheap. Well, the smithing part wasn't too tricky. Heat treating long blades is the real problem, since it requires specialized equipment or some serious skill/guts. Anyway, while "mad blacksmithing skillz" is nice to have, it's more important to understand the shape a good sword ought to have. I've seen smiths way, way more talanted then me produce some serious junk blades simply because they had no idea what they were trying to make.
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