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Post by wiwingti on Sept 16, 2009 0:27:06 GMT
a customer of mine asked me about rapiers and , since i never tried them and handled them,i don't know a lot.
what is the diference between those two and are they functional?
SH1032 and SH1032B
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2009 0:42:19 GMT
They are functional pieces, the 1032 is the standard blade and the 1032b is the Schlaeger blade. the Schlaeger is more of an Oval shaped blade and the standard is more of a epee blade. Hope that helps.
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Post by wiwingti on Sept 16, 2009 0:45:51 GMT
They are functional pieces, the 1032 is the standard blade and the 1032b is the Schlaeger blade. the Schlaeger is more of an Oval shaped blade and the standard is more of a epee blade. Hope that helps. thanks man, i love those pieces but, because they look too fragile , never had the guts to order any of those lol marc
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2009 0:58:37 GMT
I had a few of the practicals, but never really got around to using them. Most people have no real use for rapiers...they are nice to look at though...lol
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Post by wiwingti on Sept 16, 2009 1:01:10 GMT
haha nice to look at, what do we do with swords to look at when we love to cut man? thanks
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Post by skystone on Sept 16, 2009 1:44:41 GMT
I own a couple Windlass Rapiers. The blades are incredible. They can flex like no tomorrow and return. They handle very differently than other types Long swords katanas, but have their strong points like speed. I enjoy thrusting coconuts with mine it goes right through them. I am this close to cutting the basket off the handle and just leaving the knuckle blow and guard. It should be like greased lightening then.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2009 2:40:14 GMT
So heres the big question, if say Albion is king of the non custom medieval swords, who's king of the rapiers ? ......... Is it A&A or is someone more for it
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Post by shadowhowler on Sept 17, 2009 3:18:45 GMT
So heres the big question, if say Albion is king of the non custom medieval swords, who's king of the rapiers ? ......... Is it A&A or is someone more for it I have found it very, VERY hard to get a good rapier... there are not really any I can think of in the production market. For myself, I'm thinking about getting a custom one done from BKS. I know Darkwood makes some... but not as production weapons. As for what you can do with a rapier as opposed to a cutting sword... a good rapier, the type I like, can still cut pretty well, just not heavy targets. A lot of people confused rapiers with foils... my favorite rapiers have enough of an edge to do some nasty thrust and draw cuts... ...and of course, there is the stabbing. Its a LOT hard to quckly stab a waterbottle then it is to cut it. Don't belive me? Try it... you'll be surprised how often you stright up MISS the waterbottle. ;D
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2009 5:44:46 GMT
Down the track I would love to learn rapier and own a nice set, the florentine rapier from windlass looks the goods with matching dagger, peened and all steel hilt but of course would be a nightmare getting the dagger into oz. The only step up it seems is is A&A but their ones certainly look the goods and often with an equally good matching dagger ....... although 850.00 ...... HHHOOOOO !!!!!!!! ......... then again its probably so much more painfull to make up a rapier. I would probably need to be a fairly commited student and swordsman of rapier to warrent A&A ........
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Post by shadowhowler on Sept 17, 2009 8:10:07 GMT
I very nearly bought the Florentine Rapier from Windlass when it was the deal of the day awhile ago... a very attractive piece.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2009 15:11:09 GMT
There is no such thing as a good rapier. That's why you didn't buy it. lol
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2009 16:27:53 GMT
I have a lot of experience fencing rapier. Can someone give me links to the rapiers in question?
A Schlager blade is oval. They come in a variety of lengths from 36" up and sometimes more then 42".
Rapiers are diamond. They also come in a variety of lengths from 36" up and sometimes more then 42".
The shorter ones will perform better cuts and slices. In most cases the cuts or slices will be minor wounds. The blades simply do no have enough mass. The thrusts can be very deadly. These weapons were intended for unarmored fighting. A schlager and rapier of the same length will perform in a similar manor. The blades are barely distinguishable. The main difference is one of Geography. The Schlager was used in Germany and a similar weapon used in Italy was called a Rapier. The use was different. The Schlager was intended to make non-lethal cuts in duels among students who sported a cut on their right cheek as a right of passage. The rapier was used to mostly to kill with thrusts in hostile situations.
Either blade can be fitted with a variety of different hilts (cruciform, swept hilt, basket, clamshell, cup). Both of these swords probably evolved from the Cut and Thrust sword. This had a more meaty blade that could make respectable cuts capable of cutting muscle and breaking bone. The Cut and Thrust probably evolved out of the medieval arming sword.
There is also what was called the broadsword. It was called a broadsword because it was a contemporary of the Rapier and was "broad" compared to it. It is very similar to many Cut and Thrust swords. The distinctions between these different sword types is more apparent to us today looking back. In period they were probably just called "swords". The people using them at the time usually did not know was was used 200 years earlier.
The Small Sword was was similar to rapier or schlager except that is was short and very quick. It was about 30". When we get to Epees and foils there is a clear break in the tradition of what a blade is.
The epee has three edges. It was tipped in a manor so that blood could be drawn in a non-lethal manor.
The foil has four edges. Not sure if this was ever used in honer duels.
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Post by skystone on Sept 17, 2009 19:53:13 GMT
This may be an area that Windlass characteristics of whippy flexible strong CHEAPER blades are your bang for the buck. I have learned somewhat little just the basics of rapier and I enjoy mine. One thing tho one of the rapiers guards was supposed to be nickle plated and it came un-plated steel in the white. They are not lookers but tough beaters that are still ticking. En Toledo Steel also put out some awesome swords in its time. Broad bladed rapiers and some excellent buckler swords. Windlass also repros some of these types.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2009 22:51:02 GMT
a customer of mine asked me about rapiers and , since i never tried them and handled them,i don't know a lot. what is the diference between those two and are they functional? SH1032 and SH1032B I did some googling for you. These are both practice blades for fencing and designed to bend somewhat on impact. The SH1032 is a musketeer blade. It is an epee (three edges) that is larger then an normal epee in thickness (24mm). The SH1032B is a schlager which will maneuver similar to a rapier. Its oval cross-section allows it to bend better on impact. The musketeer blades tend to maneuver more like Smallswords with fast cutting motions.
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Post by wiwingti on Sept 18, 2009 0:55:00 GMT
ok so, that mean these blkades are not functional blades, but for practice?
or did i missunderstood? lol
marc
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2009 19:31:58 GMT
ok so, that mean these blades are not functional blades, but for practice? or did i missunderstood? lol marc Correct. These are not sharp and not pointy. They will often have a nob at the end to spread the force of the impact better. See here: www.swordmeister.net/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=100I have also found them available without the nob. military.swords24.eu/product/description/1608/Fencing_Rapier_-_Schlaeger_Blade.htmlThe company that owns the rights probably contracts the work out so there will be fluctuations in blade stiffness. With rapiers you have to make a point of stating how stiff you want them when you order. Soft, medium, or hard. A hard fencing blade is probably just as stiff a period rapier was. I have seen stiff enough fencing blades so that if you put at point them they would be deadly. My rapier has a medium flex and I once dented a guys fencing mask when I misjudged the distance.
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Post by wiwingti on Sept 19, 2009 5:21:46 GMT
thanks a lot man for the info,
so it mean that when it comes to rapier,, there are a lot that cannot cut anything lol.
i'll remember that
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2009 13:15:28 GMT
Don't expect even a sharp rapier to cut much. In period most rapier cuts would have left a nasty scar or took a finger but that is it. The edge would have been more useful for slices in the event your thrust misses, you can draw back for a harassing slice.
Most rapiers just just have the blade mass to make a deep cut. In addition to that, they have thick diamond cross-sections to aid in trusting. In proportion to an typical arming sword their cross section is much thicker relative to their blade width. That mean the blade has to push aside more material in a cut.
It is also interesting to speculate that in a Town or City, a fatal or maiming blow might not always be desirable. There were consequences to killing people even in those days. A scar could put someone in their place without getting one's self into trouble.
Be aware that is it not the hilt that makes a rapier, a rapier. In the 16th century a lot of military swords were fitted with swept hilts.
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Post by shadowhowler on Sept 19, 2009 13:29:26 GMT
Don't expect even a sharp rapier to cut much. In period most rapier cuts would have left a nasty scar or took a finger but that is it. The edge would have been more useful for slices in the event your thrust misses, you can draw back for a harassing slice. Most rapiers just just have the blade mass to make a deep cut. In addition to that, they have thick diamond cross-sections to aid in trusting. In proportion to an typical arming sword their cross section is much thicker relative to their blade width. That mean the blade has to push aside more material in a cut. It is also interesting to speculate that in a Town or City, a fatal or maiming blow might not always be desirable. There were consequences to killing people even in those days. A scar could put someone in their place without getting one's self into trouble. Be aware that is it not the hilt that makes a rapier, a rapier. In the 16th century a lot of military swords were fitted with swept hilts. All true... A lot of production rapiers now days don't even have a good enough blade to make the thrust/draw cuts... which are one of the things I LOVE about rapiers! If you miss with a thrust, a quick flick of your wrist as you step out and draw your sword back in line can slice your opponents sword hand but good. I've seen some custom rapiers built off Atrim blades that look exactly like what I want... but the cost is always around 700-900 bucks. If only I had the cash... I would really like a GOOD rapier... and thats harder to find then even good Chinese jian swords.
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Post by wiwingti on Sept 23, 2009 19:22:29 GMT
Ok guys, maybe that question will look weird but,
if we cannot find any sharp and fully functional rapier.
what were they made for? because if they do not cut, why people would have had a rapier at that time? just to look cool?
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