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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2009 17:21:11 GMT
Here is a picture of my humble sharpening shop. I drag all of those machines and tools outside to my ex-produce table I use for a workbench. That way I don't breathe the dust, or get it on everything in my indoor workshop. I like how the sides on my work table keep small items and rags from blowing away in the wind, or rolling off the table.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2009 17:23:17 GMT
More pix
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2009 17:24:19 GMT
More pix
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2009 17:26:03 GMT
Last pic Don't worry, I only use that angle grinder on things like shovels and lawn mower blades
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2009 17:37:48 GMT
The knives are real? They look like wallhangers. The one on the bottom is the tanto of the 'future samurai', I think. I wouldn't want to sharpen or use such knives. Your sharpening stone looks pretty good though.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2009 17:53:28 GMT
The knives are real? They look like wallhangers. The one on the bottom is the tanto of the 'future samurai', I think. I wouldn't want to sharpen or use such knives. Your sharpening stone looks pretty good though. Apparently there is some controversy about those Samurai 3000 blades being crap but I have used them for light cutting, and they feel well built. I have SLO's I have that don't even feel safe to swing around, so I just keep them for display only I have cut with all of those blades in the picture, and the Samurai 3000 O-Tanto cuts through bottles and small tree branches with almost no resistance I was wondering what stone you are referring to, maybe you are looking at a wax bar of polishing compound? I don't use stones, because my past attempts at using stones always ended up with blades as dull as a baseball bat so I stick to my machine tools. Cheers, Mike.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2009 18:01:31 GMT
Well, the samurai 3000 stuff is stainless steel, right. That might work for a shorter knife but I still don't like stainless on ANY blade. There are so many better steels out there.
I meant the round thingie. Looked like a grinding wheel made out of stone.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2009 18:06:16 GMT
Looks like a cardboard or felt wheel that buffing compound will be added to.
Nice setup, Is that grey machine a belt sander? Please explain your process up through the grits.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2009 18:19:54 GMT
take apart your samurai 3000 blade and tell me if you still think its safe to cut with
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SlayerofDarkness
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Post by SlayerofDarkness on Sept 1, 2009 18:22:55 GMT
Those knives are all stainless steel Kit Rae/Gil Hibbens designs (though the top one MAY be something else...). They are wallhangers and NOT meant for actual use, and are not safe for such, regardless of what you might think. Sure, I've had SLO's that 'feel' safe too... unti they snap. Those things are really not what you want for a cutting blade... I'm no expert on 'why' stainless isn't good, so I'll let the guys with more experience do the talking, but suffice it to say that you shouldn't be SHARPENING those knives. They should be duled and put on display, or better yet, sold to get $ for some functional weapons. EDIT: DUH! I completely forgot to comment on your sharpening set up... Looks great, man! I'm not very proficient at sharpening stuff, myself, but I hope to try Fixing up a cheap Windass' edge soon. (NOT your's Sean. I mean REALLY cheap.) Good job and good luck on the sharpening... And I agree with Sam. More info is always better! ;D -Slayer
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2009 18:35:49 GMT
Gil Hibben, doesn't he make some very good fighting knives?
I'm not an stainless expert either but I think the chromium in stainless makes it unusable for blades. It makes the steel brittle, hard to harden and temper and keeps it from holding a nice edge. The less chromium there is in steel the better it is for blades. High carbon stainless steel can be used for knives, especially if corrosion is a problem (for example for kitchen knives or diving knives). But carbon steel will ALWAYS make for a better blade.
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SlayerofDarkness
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Post by SlayerofDarkness on Sept 1, 2009 18:39:14 GMT
His handmade knives- yes. His fantasy display knives- not so much. In fact, my Sensei at karate has met Gil Hibbens, and own dozens of his custom hand-made knives. They're pretty (awesome ). Unfortunately I haven't seen any in person as of yet, but that's another topic. -Slayer
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2009 19:52:54 GMT
Well, the samurai 3000 stuff is stainless steel, right. That might work for a shorter knife but I still don't like stainless on ANY blade. There are so many better steels out there. I meant the round thingie. Looked like a grinding wheel made out of stone. I agree there better steels, but I have several stainless oriental style swords I bought back in the 80's that I have done light cutting with and none of them have ever broken The wheel is made of compressed cardboard, and the surface is loaded with the diamond polishing compound by sticking the bar against the surface of the wheel breifly while its turning. After a few knives or a sword, the wheel will need loading again. Cheers, Mike
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2009 19:59:36 GMT
take apart your samurai 3000 blade and tell me if you still think its safe to cut with I think the aluminum handle is cast on to the tang. I don't see any pins to tap out, or screws. I wouldn't want to wreck it just to get it apart There is no movement at all of the blade in the handle, or I wouldn't play with it. If the handle is cast on, wouldn't that be pretty sturdy, especially if the tang had holes or notches for the aluminum to flow into
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Post by hotspur on Sept 1, 2009 20:06:58 GMT
Gil Hibben, doesn't he make some very good fighting knives? I'm not an stainless expert either but I think the chromium in stainless makes it unusable for blades. It makes the steel brittle, hard to harden and temper and keeps it from holding a nice edge. The less chromium there is in steel the better it is for blades. High carbon stainless steel can be used for knives, especially if corrosion is a problem (for example for kitchen knives or diving knives). But carbon steel will ALWAYS make for a better blade. Some well meaning thoughts and I don't mean to scope only your thoughts as a target. Too many simply don't seem to understand realities. You are offering some real nonsense (or ignorance) in your post regarding steels. Any steel with more than .3% steel is considered high carbon steel. That would be 1030 (if your thinking cap has that in there somewhere). Many high chromium steels need not be brittle and are just fine in sword lengths. Consider this. Angus Trim uses 5160 steel of a chromium mix. Del Tin, Arms & Armor and Albion all use mixes of 6150, also a chromium mix. The truth is that when you feel the need to preface an opinion about steels in writing "I'm not an stainless expert either"; just maybe, the thoughts are better left unwritten. As to the Samurai 3000 stuff? I do remember that those and some others (Daywalker?) did have tiny threads at the start but had better made tangs in more recent years. The tang is what I would wonder about myself, while excepting thaqt durable "stainless" swords tend to be a little soft and many do avoid the shatter like glass principles some will always regard it as such. On the other hand. Barry Dawson has worked with a lot of swords in 440c and has shown they can bend wildly without shattering and do indeed hold an edge. Jerry Hossom for another that has done katana length swords in ATS-34 and other quite high chromium steels. Then there is the late Bob Engnath that worked in a number of steels as well, including the devil chromium types. What I mean to infer to any on that bandwagon of "stainless sucks" is to first, get a grip and then take some time to do some homework without characterizing any steel out of context. Take the United Cutlery LOTR swords "for an example". Glamdring and Anduril have tangs quite unsuited to using them on banging on things. I have never seen some of the other shorter ones apart but the Strider sword would probably take and hold somewhat of an edge and not break too easily, as it has a beefy tang. Then I could pull out other's recanting what they tried to and failed to easily break a good number of wallhangers. Sometime around 2002, poor Sean Lefler (sp) manages to leave an indelible mark on video as a broken blade gets him in the gut. That might not be the only harbinger of doom folk base their thoughts on, as those poor Marto Highlanders had real hilt issues and true rat tail tangs still appear at times. The real truth is that a good many of the katana out there now and praised at less than $100 are really todays equals of the past. Junk swords with thin rod tangs whether simple or higher chromium steels are the real worry there. Myself, I feel the plethora of the Chinese cheapies in rusting hulks might seem to some to be progress but it appears to me that shoddy is as shoddy does. Can the devil "stainless" be brittle? Sure it can, just like so many other steels possible for sword making. Not to forget the magic .3% while one ciphers the truths. Cheers Hotspur; as I sit here and curse at an Italian blade making it hair popping sharp (not Del Tin but yes, a generic stainless blade)
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2009 20:16:07 GMT
The blades from the top down: 1.Gil Hibben (very well built, not junk, lots of parrying guards, one of my favorites) 2. A Robert Shiflett knife, like it but that little "saddle horn" shaped piece in the middle of the handle hurts your finger when you grip the knife, I am going to cut it off Don't confuse this with the Shiflett Sidewswiper, which is not good for anything but to hang on a wall, the blade is designed with a real bad weak spot 3. unknown knife, but one of my favorites, Parry Hooks ;D 4. the mostly unloved Samurai 3000 tanto, but it's been good to me, cuts like a Plasmium blade should I think due to it's size, it should be considered an O-Tanto. With a lot of weight in the handle, it actually quite fast and lively
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2009 20:22:22 GMT
Looks like a cardboard or felt wheel that buffing compound will be added to. Nice setup, Is that grey machine a belt sander? Please explain your process up through the grits. The belt sander is a 1x42 Craftsman I bought so many years ago I forgot when For swords with a decent bevel, I use a 300 grit belt, then go to the cardboard wheel with the diamond compound on it. After spending a lot of time reading things on this awesome forum, I am going to order me some finer grit belts
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2009 20:28:58 GMT
Yeah, Del Tin and others use chromium steel but not steel with 13% chromium. That refers as stainless steel.
So why am I offering nonsene? I said that high carbon stainless can be used for blades. So there is your magical .3% in a stainless steel. You, in fact, didn't answer the question. Why is stainless bad for swords? You just said there are stainless steel swords that could take a beating but that doesn't answer the question at all. Sure, I'll take a 2'' blank of stainless steel and I assure you that can take a beating too. OK, that's not a sword but still proves the toughness of stainless, if there is something like that. What did you say that made my thrad look like nonsense?
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Post by hotspur on Sept 1, 2009 20:56:30 GMT
Yes, quite pointless on my part I'm sure.
Carry on, maybe after you have read of Barry Dawson, Jerry Hossom, Bob Engnath and others.
My point about your post and others that often precede the same nonsense is that high chromium steels cannot and have never made functional swords. Some of them have been made quite a bit better than you might think. If the three names above draw a blank for you, just maybe there is something in learning about them that might be of benefit to you.
Or not
Cheers
Hotspur; surely Bob Engnath might ring a bell for someone listing as chenessfan
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2009 21:56:14 GMT
] Any steel with more than .3% steel is considered high carbon steel. That would be 1030 . Because you enjoy splitting hairs on so many terms, thought I would correct you here Glenn, anything with .3% to .5% is considered in industry to be medium carbon steel. Anything above .5% is considered high carbon steel.
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