Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2009 23:47:20 GMT
That's what I have been thinking, but somehow I was given the impression that the GSOW won't be very effective against light targets like water bottles.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2009 23:53:11 GMT
Now you have got me inspired, I think I'll borrow the company's UPS scale this weekend, and weigh a few swords
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2009 0:27:50 GMT
I put my vote in for a long handled war-hammer. You could choke up for closer quarters and coming in at about 2 lbs or 2.5 lbs it would be fast. Put langlets on it to defeat knife-machete wielders, the hammer takes care of helmets or breakings, and the spike rocks armor and craniums, assuming zombies. A longer handle gives you reach for keeping the Z-heads at reach and also outreaching knife-wielders. Maybe put a spike on top for surprise thrusts.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2009 1:02:01 GMT
Are you sure that would weigh 2.5 pounds? It seems awfully light for a war hammer.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2009 2:34:18 GMT
Definitely a falcata. And a warhammer-- Although I'm really liking this axe from A&A, right now.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2009 2:55:21 GMT
Pogo, why would you use those particular weapons? I can see why they would be effective, but I want your explanation.
|
|
|
Post by genocideseth on Aug 22, 2009 3:08:08 GMT
The falcata is a nice choice! Why didn't I think of it!?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2009 3:35:19 GMT
The warhammer and the axe for stated reasons. They really are quite light weapons, with weight being concentrated out on the head and in a small area. Compact, fast, and exceptionally hard hitting.
|
|
|
Post by sicheah on Aug 22, 2009 3:46:22 GMT
How about a khopesh? You can cut, slash and thrust with it. Below is a picture of a khopesh from Neil Burridge's website
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2009 3:48:44 GMT
I'm glad that I am not the only one who noticed his obvious writing skill. Maybe he wants information for a book, in which case, I want to know what the title will be, and how I can acquire it. Maybe I should start writing longer posts...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2009 4:00:59 GMT
If you want to, I welcome it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2009 4:01:14 GMT
My question to you, Taran, is: how do you see your mace proposal addressing fighting against multiple opponents in tight quarters. Is it still effective when the space available for a full swing is highly limited, and when rapid recovery from a miss (or even a hit) is necessary? I don't know much about mace fighting. Also, how do you address the task of quietly dispatching a sentry or scout? Do you supplement with a knife, perhaps? Keep it coming, folks. A lot of good data here, If I'm not fighting armoured opponents, a mace will handle multiple foes in an enclosed space quite easily. Armoured opponents, well, it doesn't matter what you're using, you need some room. In such a situation, however, a crushing weapon will do best against an armoured opponent. The typical mace has about the same length as a shortsword, 26in or less, in toto. A mace does not need a full swing to be effective and is, actually, not as heavy as you're thinking. 4 Lbs, tops. Also, remember that after an impact, the mace will be sitting on top of the mangled surface of the target as opposed to embedded. Even with sharpened flanges that cut, you're weapon has less than 2 inches penetration. Recovery on a miss or block will be the same as any cut-oriented blade and recovery on a hit will be significantly improved in comparison to any blade. Silently dispatching anything with a mace is going to be about the same as doing so with any other weapon. If the target doesn't see you, you won't make much noise. Unless you're smacking metal armour, of course. But head to toe metal armour is going to make noise no matter what you hit it with, be it a sword, axe, mace or missile. As for the concern about scratches from zombies causing infection, the answer is leather armour. Some good 5oz or heavier suede will be both comfortable in most environments, and sufficient protection to avoid scratches or cuts from anything short of a dedicated cutting weapon wielded with intent. While teeth can still get through leather of that thickness, given enough force behind them, I'm pretty sure even zombies don't have 20 tons of force in their jaws (I've been doing a lot of work with leather; teeth won't pierce without at Least 20 tons of force, and I think they might just crush themselves before they pierce at that point).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2009 4:59:45 GMT
I think either dual Gus Trim Tac leaf blade or one of them in combination with a sheild(with sharpened edges so its offense/defense) or a long sword, my theory with a long sword is if your getting rushed by numerous foes just pull a link and spin around real fast with it alternatively this is my little zombie kit (I posted this a while ago on a different forum) and Of course for Backup I always bring my trusty
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2009 5:15:17 GMT
... one of them in combination with a sheild(with sharpened edges so its offense/defense)... I have to wonder if you've ever used a shield or if this part of the post is as facetious as what followed it...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2009 5:18:00 GMT
Good work on the increased word-count, there, Taran. Welcome to the "Is it skill, or just verbosity?" club. I've managed to keep people wondering for years.
The arguments in favor of the hammer and mace are compelling. The question thus becomes: if these are such superior weapon designs, then why are the elite warriors of history almost universally associated with swords?
If I were to guess, I'd offer two theories--which are really the same theory: the sword is more maneuverable and the sword is more versatile. It is more maneuverable simply because it is less end-weighted. Even with identical mass, length, and point of balance, the tip-weighted weapon is still going to have a greater moment about its point of balance, and will thus be harder to rotationally accelerate (i.e., stop, start, or change the direction of its rotation). And since every motion but the straight thrust has a rotational component, every acceleration but the straight thrust will be impeded by the tip-weighting of the weapon. This is, of course, what gives both maces and hacking swords their power, since "bouncing off the target for zero damage" is one of the accelerations they resist. It must come at the expense of nimbleness, though.
And this leads to the second thing, which is versatility. A sword can deal deadly damage with a greater variety of motions than any other weapon. It can stab, chop, pull cut, and push cut, and it can use any sharpened portion of its length to achieve the last three. (This is not counting the damage it can do through nonconventional use of the pommel, guard, or back of the blade, or other non-edged areas.) As a result, nearly any motion that applies edge to target, used against a target at any range from arm-plus-blade's reach to grappling distance, can result in a kill.
(For whatever reason, I'm lying on my back, holding my foe in the guard, and I have one arm around the back of his head, pressing his neck against my weapon just above the handle. Dragging the lower six inches of a mace's haft across his throat will not slice open his trachea. "Yeah, but dragging the sharpened flanges across his throat will." Sure, but not with ease, and they're way over there, are the other end of the weapon. The point is: if it was a sword, the guy would already be moribund.)
The fact that a sword can kill with a greater variety of motion, as well as a greater economy of motion, makes for a more sophisticated art. The fact that a tapered blade can jump to these various motions so lithely and with such ease makes it an artist's tool.
In short, while the sword is less forgiving of the untrained, it holds more rewards for the skillful, in terms of allowing them to kill more easily and efficiently in the long run.
I'm certain that this is why so much human effort has been devoted over the centuries to the metallurgical aspects of sword-making. Imagine if one could combine the innate capabilities of a sword with the power of the axe to chop through armor, or the power of the spike to pierce it, or the power of the mace to crush it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2009 6:06:33 GMT
Ok let me address a few of the comments in this thread in an attempt to enter the ""Is it skill, or just verbosity?" club. From what I have been told from a few other esteemed gentleman through a variety of reviews, the Busse AK sword/KLO (katana like object) does not balance correctly and being formally trained to use a katana that would irritate me immensely. When things don't balance the way they should or fall within the parameters of weight for their class it is frustrating. Now to everyone saying they would take a longsword I would have to ask about level of training? Having trained in WMA my first question would have to be have you ever carried a longsword through an urban area or through a forested area? Have you ever considered how long it would take you to bring said sword into play if zombies surprised you from a side alley or suddenly came out of a door? How would you carry said sword? Would you constantly have it unsheathed? Or in a back carry? Both options cause a number of issues. The difficulty with the longsword, even when halfswording is that in urban environments or against surprise attacks or inside buildings you will be in trouble. In an area where you have open space to swing the blade you might have luck against one or two opponents but if four zombies blindly rush you are once you might get one good swing and then they are inside the effective range of your weapon. Whilst the blade is not the only part of a sword, this only works against normal humans. Zombies shrug off wounds that would incapacitate a normal human being. You basically have to dismember them, severing the carotid arteries won't kill a zombie, nor will striking the femoral artery. You could go for the achilles tendon but the zombie will still crawl after you. To pierce it through the head and kill the brain you need exceptional control and you would need time to extricate the blade. The longsword is impractical in this situation, no matter how well it is made. I guess the next point to make is how many of you could bring yourself to a mental state of readiness to actually use your sword against another human being? Zombies are people too, let me try it another way. If your wife or daughter or mother was bitten by a zombie and she (whichever the case may be) attacked you, could you bring yourself to dispatch her? That is really the level of readiness you would need. I would say that probably about 80-90% of us could not bring ourselves to use our weapons or we would hesitate in which case you just lost your window to bring your longsword into play. This is a very real possibility in a zombie invasion, unless you are ready to kill your loved ones or are ready to bring your weapons into play against another human being you aren't ready for a zombie invasion and you probably won't survive. In terms of weapons, easy to carry, easy to draw, easy to use, easy to sharpen and as near unbreakable as possible. For all the guys saying they would take clark L6 katanas, really? I mean don't get me wrong I'm sure he does great work, but I mean are you going to carry that thing around on your hip all day every day? What happens if you are attacked at night? I think that the same issues with the longsword you face with a katana. Much as short weapons put you in range of the zombies, with motorcycle leathers, a steel gorget and maybe something like a riot helmet or a paintball mask the zombies can't get at you so well and you can use your shorter weapons with impugnity. I think an axe is an excellent weapon, it can easily remove a head, with the back spike you can punch through the skull into the brain and the spikes are designed in such a way that they don't drag in the wound. I put forward another contender for a fighting knife; Though I would change the grip material for some good leather or possible micarta. Shiva Ki knives arguably some of the best and sharpest combat oriented knives out there.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2009 6:14:18 GMT
It's good! Definitely good. Wraith can join. See, folks? You have plenty of good essayists here. I guess you just don't inspire them like I do. Also: For all the guys saying they would take clark L6 katanas, really? I mean don't get me wrong I'm sure he does great work, but I mean are you going to carry that thing around on your hip all day every day? It would be tempting.
|
|
|
Post by genocideseth on Aug 22, 2009 6:33:33 GMT
I agree 100% with bloodwraith. I would have said something similar, but god am I tired of saying it. ;D Everyone wants to take the sword they find the coolest, and think of their training, as if a zombie would come up to them with a sword a demand a duel.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2009 6:42:23 GMT
And that's not what this thread is about. Be it zombies, or people, or ornery badgers, your foes are nonconventional, and likely to come in groups. You will face them in nonconventional environments as well, such as darkened hallways, city streets, and the old wood shed out back. You are all out of bullets, and they will be within arm's reach of you in another couple of seconds. What do you pull out, Seth?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2009 6:48:04 GMT
Hmmm....I really respect the people who mentioned training. You really do need it to wield a sword properly. Given the parameters given above I would carry a Jian with a 26-28" blade, preferably a beefier blade...found in 'village' or 'militia' jian to better protect the hardened edge. The 28" blade is long enough for full size sword work but more handy than the longer blades. I choose the jian because my training is in its use.
For non sword trained people, the old Cold STeel Battlemace, or the current CS war hammer would make a better survival weapon.
If it's a zombocalypse. I would save the sword for people and rely on a long handled mace or warhammer.
|
|