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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2009 5:45:35 GMT
Hey I'm not sure where to put this thread so I'm just putting it in the general area. If you haven't guessed, i'm one of those annoying newbies always asking what sword to buy. Actually, I have a few specific questions. This will be my first "real" sword, so naturally I'm cautious and don't want to spend too much money. At first I was looking at the European hand-and-a-half swords; the Cold steel model caught my attention. I also know that the VA Atrim longsword is highly recommended. Finally, I saw a Musashi Katana on Swords of Might for only $50.00--the cutting video and reviews were all very positive; I liked the look, and the budget price is enticing, so I'll probably be getting that for starters. Does anyone have any comments on these swords, or recommendations for similar ones in inexpensive price ranges? By the way, what are the advantages of japanese vs. European swords, and vice versa? Do you grip your hands closer together on a European one? Does the pommel ever get in the way? I look forward to your advice.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2009 5:50:56 GMT
For a first sword don't buy anything cold steel, except maybe their shamshir and even then.
What is your budget for this first sword? Do you have any experience or training with katana or european swords? What do you want your sword for? Do you intend to take lessons for using katana or european weapons?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2009 5:57:44 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2009 8:14:32 GMT
I would go with the practical long sword from VA it seems to be a good sword, and speaking from personal expirience VA offers the most amazing customer service I have ever had
or katana-wise I would likely goto wiwingwit sword supply and get the hanwei practical special it has fake same (a little diapointing) But the blade is beautiful and the overall sword is great the only reason I never got it was because by the time I knew about it I had 2 hanwei swords already and also I was fairly uncomfortable with online shopping (though I still ended up buying a sword online) (a beastly sword)
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Post by YlliwCir on Aug 7, 2009 12:14:11 GMT
Welcome to the forum, Aciesnova. Good idea to ask questions before buying, I wished I'd found this forum a bit earlier, would have saved me some cash, I reckon. I almost always ask here about a sword before I purchase these days.
I have a couple Cold Steel pieces that I'm pleased with. However they do have some problem models and their Hand and a Half is one, the pommel has a tenancy to break off according to a few threads I've read.
I have the VA practical Long sword and am very pleased with it. That particular sword gets good mention. Their have been a few issues but that's gonna happen with all swords I think.
I also have a cheaper Musashi Kat and for the price I think you can't go wrong there unless your expectations are unrealistic. I've put mine through it's paces quite a bit and it has held up well except for a slight loosening of the guard and the wrapping on the handle shifts a wee bit, over all I'd buy it again.
As for advantages of Japanese vs. European swords I think it comes down to preference and whether one is practicing a particular martial art, as has already been mentioned. For myself I find more variety in Euro blades and that handle wrap business on the kat's seems a bit delicate to me. (Ok, boys not in the face). ;D
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2009 12:39:23 GMT
Go with wiwingwi sword supply for the $80 musashi kats, or the VA arming sword. personally if you love swords, there's an ASA Atrim sword in the Classified section, you can't go wrong with that though you will be pretty in pink (that sword was meant for Ric).
The difference is with western types swords, people don't get on each other's case as much lol. mm...well what can I tell ya...Personally I think the romanticism with the katana is more due to hype and the fact that it's more expensive and got so many parts and names, types, regions, theories, arguments and even more parts (that most of the time looser than Paris Hilton on a hot summer night). Lots and lots and lots to discuss.
Western swords on the other hand are great, but because they don't have all that jazz, the dialogue is kinda dull.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2009 13:38:57 GMT
I dont know what your budget is but Myself I would spend a bit more than $50.00 for my first sword.In the sword world you usually get what you pay for anybody can make any sword look good in a video they made. Anyways if you want to go European maybe some thing from Tinker he is very well known and makes some great swords.I'm sure his swords are on more websites but here are some of his swords ok Kult of athena kultofathena.com/s_results.asp?search=tinker&submit=Searchand not much more than you would spend on a cold steel hand and a half. foor a decent Euro or katana there's also Darksword www.darksword-armory.com/They have been getting good reviews for a while around here and their new Katana line also has gotten good reviews. I knoe $50.00 or a less expensive sword looks good but read a bunch or reviews before you spend that hard earned cash, www.sword-manufacturers-guide.com/index.html
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2009 16:23:55 GMT
Thank you all for your advice. Sorry I couldn't reply sooner, but I had to get some shut-eye. My Budget for this sword? Up to $300, but the less expensive the better. Unfortunately, I have not taken any form of martial arts so no I'm not some sort of ninja killer guy. I want one partly out of curiosity since I've always been fascinated with swords. I plan on trying a little backyard cutting (very cautiously, of course.)
As to the Cold Steel model, I emailed them about the pommel problem and they replied that it has been addressed. I'm sort of surprised that no one discusses that one since it looks really powerful but I suppose I'm in no place to judge.
So if I did get an expensive sword it would be a VA probably. However, unless you have any advice against it, I'll just start with one of those cheap katanas since I've never even handled a sword before. Speaking of sword handling, are there any comprehensive manuals available on that subject? All I've been able to find are some Youtube videos.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2009 16:28:20 GMT
Hey I like the looks of that Takeo Katana. Could anything that inexpensive be differentially heat treated?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2009 17:02:53 GMT
Here is the SGB page for Musashi swords who make the Takeo line. www.sword-manufacturers-guide.com/musashi-swords.htmland here is the main SBG page with a bunch of manuf. www.sword-manufacturers-guide.com/index.htmlI dont think the are diff tempered they all say just tempered carbon steel.Please dont just buy something because you like the way it looks or because it's only a certain amount of money.If you are taking the time save up your money do a bunch of research,the forum is a great place to start look around at old reviews and keep asking questions.Again dont let price (because it's only $) sway you to a certain sword,take your time.
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Post by sicheah on Aug 7, 2009 17:05:37 GMT
Hey I like the looks of that Takeo Katana. Could anything that inexpensive be differentially heat treated? Yeah to my knowledge, those 800 series are differentially hardened, in my opinion best sub $100 katana you can buy. Might want to send an email to musashiswords.com to confirm (I think his name is Roger if I am not mistaken). Also if you are not in a hurry, try keeping an eye at the classified. I've seen one or two takeo for sale in recent weeks. Edit: I second buliwyf's suggestion to take a deeper look at the reviews on the swords here. As always feel free to ask our opinions for a particular katana or euro swords at the Japanese swords and European medieval swords forum respectively. A little bit of research goes a long way.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2009 17:30:58 GMT
Thanks again for the help. I thought those katanas might be diff. heat treated just because that one wavy line is uneven which I think indicates that. Anyways I can always ask the site.
Are there any of you sword enthusiasts who didn't take a martial art class but can cut well anyway? I mean, is it really necessary to take some sort of class, or with a little basic knowledge can I teach myself?
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SlayerofDarkness
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Post by SlayerofDarkness on Aug 7, 2009 18:06:25 GMT
Thanks again for the help. I thought those katanas might be diff. heat treated just because that one wavy line is uneven which I think indicates that. Anyways I can always ask the site. Are there any of you sword enthusiasts who didn't take a martial art class but can cut well anyway? I mean, is it really necessary to take some sort of class, or with a little basic knowledge can I teach myself? I've never taken a 'real' sword related martial art, but I can still cut pretty well. With the right sword (thanks tom), I can even cut empties consistently. From what I know, even the Great RicWilly has never had 'real' sword training, but he's easily one of the best cutters on this forum. Bottom line: Training helps, but is NOT necessary to be a decent cutter. However, I'd still highly recommend that you get training if you have the opportunity; the only reason I haven't is because the only place in Tallahassee that teaches ANY type of sword use is the SCA and their meeting times conflict with my karate classes. Luckily I'm going to start going to karate at a different type soon, so then I'll be able to check out the SCA. BTW, the Takeo line is both TH AND DH. The models with item #'s that start with '7' are NOT DH, while the 8-- series ARE DH. Just to clear that up. Also, of the swords you mentioned, and really of ANY swords on the market under $300, I'd recomend the VA Practical Longsword, also known as the 304S. The sword itself is wonderful, and the customer service from Sonny (the owner of VA) is even BETTER! You absolutely cannot go wrong with a practical VA, from what I know. (Unless you order a longsword and expect a katana, but NOBODY is that weird. ) Hope this helps! -Slayer
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Post by sicheah on Aug 7, 2009 18:21:05 GMT
Well it is not "necessary" to take a martial art class but you need to keep in mind that you should treat sword with the respect it should because a sword is a weapon and exercise strict caution when attempting to cut with it.
Common sense will tell you that you should never under any circumstances use real sword for sword fighting like in you see in Hollywood movies and when you are cutting make sure other people are not close to you when you perform a cutting exercise.
Contrary to "popular" beliefs swords cannot chop iron/tank so never, ever do it.
Cutting improves with practice. Feel free to ask us tips and suggestions about cutting tips and techniques.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2009 18:35:14 GMT
Hey I like the looks of that Takeo Katana. Could anything that inexpensive be differentially heat treated? They are not really. They are water quenched which cause a quench line because the edge cools faster then the spine...so there is some hardness difference...but they donĀ“t do the traditional clay and such. In anycase, they are wonderful swords for that price. As for japanese vs western, if all you wanna do is some backyard cutting, then japanese swords have the advantage as you can get much better sword for the price in japanese sword then western at this price point.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2009 18:37:12 GMT
Water bottles are the easiest way to start out, right? Or maybe those rolled up mats? And you're supposed to step with your right foot when cutting right to left, and with your left foot when cutting left to right? The right hand should be right up against the guard and the left down at the butt/pommel for leverage? (That's about all I know so I want to make sure at least that's right)
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SlayerofDarkness
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Post by SlayerofDarkness on Aug 7, 2009 18:37:22 GMT
Well it is not "necessary" to take a martial art class but you need to keep in mind that you should treat sword with the respect it should because a sword is a weapon and exercise strict caution when attempting to cut with it. Common sense will tell you that you should never under any circumstances use real sword for sword fighting like in you see in Hollywood movies and when you are cutting make sure other people are not close to you when you perform a cutting exercise. Contrary to "popular" beliefs swords cannot chop iron/tank so never, ever do it. Cutting improves with practice. Feel free to ask us tips and suggestions about cutting tips and techniques. Well said and +1! You just summed up everything I left out of my post into a very well written post of your own. -Slayer
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SlayerofDarkness
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Post by SlayerofDarkness on Aug 7, 2009 18:41:36 GMT
Water bottles are the easiest way to start out, right? Or maybe those rolled up mats? And you're supposed to step with your right foot when cutting right to left, and with your left foot when cutting left to right? The right hand should be right up against the guard and the left down at the butt/pommel for leverage? (That's about all I know so I want to make sure at least that's right) That's about right... I'm no expert, but I don't think that anything you said is wrong. And actually, bottles aren't the easiest target, although they aren't far from it. I'd say that the overall easiest target to cut would be water-filled milk jugs. Thicker plastic 16 oz, 20oz and two liter bottles are a bit harder. Also, the milk jugs with wide bottoms are much easier to cut without knocking them over than the thin kind that's about the size of a 2-liter. Does any of that make sense? -Slayer
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2009 18:48:07 GMT
The sword I linked you to is in fact DH. If you put SBG10 into the coupon code box on the link I sent you, it comes to $75 shipped. Can't beat that.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2009 19:00:54 GMT
Milk jugs are REALLY easy targets and what most beginners should start with...then the PET water bottles...but once you get to soda bottles, they are in some ways harder to cut then mats.
Aciesnova as for how to cut...it depends on what style you learn...and what attack you plan to use. The stepping cut is the basic cut western longswordmanship...and you move from a guard to another guard in the cut...however you can do half step cuts to go from a guard to a guard finestra usually...or even no stepping. However this is all for if you interested in applying your cutting to a western martial arts. In anycase, the stepping cut you describe works fine for backyard cutting.
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