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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2009 2:25:48 GMT
The german unit is the landsknecht.
With the flamberge as well as some versions of the kris it depends on how the "serrations" are set. There are two ways that the serrations are set. They are either staggered or opposite each other. The staggered "serrations" cut much better because there is less blade area that has to pass through the target, with opposite flams there is more blade area to pass through the target, it also depends on the geometry of the flams.
The khukri cuts best where the weight is focused, generally in the belly of the blade flare from my experience, depending on the type of khuk.
My favourite chinese dao is the willow leaf personally, though a slimmer blade width.
As to why the different swords act differently, point of balance is one, geometry is another, general shape and of course the use it was designed for.
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Post by randomnobody on Jul 12, 2009 2:30:16 GMT
Ah, yes, the landsknecht. I knew that. Going to go with "sounds good to me" on the rest of your post, 'wraith.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2009 4:45:57 GMT
For things like the various Philippines' weapons and the German Flamberge, and other blades that don't quite fit into the first four categories, that is why we have this one: 5 Hybrid / Miscellaneous Swords. Kajim, thank you for posting brotherbanzai's graphics about sword dynamics. Those are actually what started the original conversation about the subject that lead to this thread. sicheah, good to hear your thoughts, a few more of us need to find our way out of the Chinese Swords forum and enlighten the rest of the place Okay, due to popular demand I will start using the Chinese terminology and the JSA guy can use theirs. Chinese Names For Sword Partswww.chinese-swords-guide.com/parts-of-a-sword.htmlFor the Dao you just substitute "Dao" for "Jian" in the names of the sword parts. So you have DaoQiao (scabbard), Daoren (edge), etc. Anyway, What I would love to hear is some examples of Euro swords and how they fit into the various dynamic categories, and why. Also, for all the JSA guys if the latana can fit more than one category based on changes in shape and geometry, why does this happen?
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Post by sicheah on Jul 12, 2009 6:23:25 GMT
Edit: The link on jian anatomy does not work At least I have the anatomy of dao courtesy of SFI
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Post by sparky on Jul 12, 2009 11:37:02 GMT
Thanks guys!
The correct terms are now saved to further my learning ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2009 11:59:10 GMT
Welcome, welcome. Sicheah, thanks for the SFI Dao anatomy link. I could only find Jian myself. Anyway, I personally think the Willow Leaf, Goose Quill, Yang Saber, Zhan Ma Dao, and Miao Dao fall more into the "Cutting" sword category than they are "chopping" swords. Let me try this, I'm going to put up some pics of various Oakeshott types and lets explore what category they would fall into and why. I'll start with one of my faves the type XI. These are examples from Albion Swords, so we know from the manufacturer's reputation that a great deal of care was taken to make certain the examples pictured (The Ritter-left and The Hospitaller-right) fit the definition of type. Now, How would we classify these swords would they be "Cut-and-Thrust" type swords or would they be dedicated cutters? Here are the specs on the Ritter to see if those help us classify this blade: Specifications Total length: 40.15" (102 cm) Blade length: 33.75" (86 cm) Blade width: 1.89" (4.8 cm) CoG: 5.125" (13 cm) CoP: 22.75" (58 cm) Weight: 2.57 lbs (1.17 kilos)
My Armory has this to say about the type XI: www.myarmoury.com/feature_spotxi.htmlThis description would put the Oakeshott Type XI into the "cutting sword" category although in my mind the images of the sword and blade specs would give it some definite "cut-and-thrust" type characteristics. We have a long blade in proportion to the hilt which moves the Point Of Balance and Weight Center of the blade out from the hand and hilt reminiscent of the "choppers" yet, the sword (according to the article at MyArmory) would be too flexible for this category, lacking a spine stiffness characteristic of the "choppers." The blade lacks the tip reinforcement of a dedicated thrusting sword, and the Point of Balance (CoG in the Albion specs) is too far away from the hilt to give this blade the agility of the "cut-and-thrust" type. So this sword is a "cutter" pure and simple. These are my thoughts and those who know more than I do are free to correct me if my thinking is erroneous.
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Post by brotherbanzai on Jul 12, 2009 17:44:32 GMT
Hey LP, I would call those two swords cutters. Fairly broad tip, not a lot of profile taper. This puts more of the weight of the blade away from the hand. The POB in relation to the overall length is pretty far down the bade. But throwing on a bigger pommel or giving it a longer grip to move the pommel back to change the POB would not, of course, change it into a cut-and-thrust. This is much of what I was trying to get across with the graphic about POB. To reiterate, there is a lot more to how a sword handles than where it's POB is (not that that's what you're suggesting, just that that's what I wanted to point out). For example, I make these HDPE wasters for my longsword group. I've tried to make them handle as much like steel long swords as possible. To that end, the bases of the blades are very wide and taper quite a lot toward the tip. The reason for that is that the material they are made from has no distal taper, so I make up for that by adding more profile taper. I was asked if I could make some with wider tips and I said "yes, but that will throw the handling off". It was then suggested, "well, couldn't you make the pommel heavier to bring the point of balance back to the same spot?" This is the fundamental misunderstanding I'm getting at. Yes I could get the point of balance back to the same spot, but then the thing would handle like a stick, not a long sword.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2009 20:53:54 GMT
Exactly brotherbanzai. There is so much more to how a sword handles than the weight and PoB. Hence, why we have this thread. To explore why certain types of swords have the characteristics that they do. (BTW I love those wasters, have you ever tried making Jians?)
So we now have some examples of "Cutting" swords: Katana, Oakeshott Type XI, The Chinese Goose Quill, Willow Leaf, Yang Saber, Zhan Ma Dao, and Miao Dao. I'm certain there are a few more Oakeshott types that fit in here, but I am out of my area of expertise (not that I have much expertise to begin with) when dealing with Oakeshott typology. So, what do these "Cutters" have in common that makes them so good at what they do?
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