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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2010 23:28:51 GMT
just wondering if you katana wizzes could tell me what the difference is? is one mekugi as good as two? does it matter? more strength? tradition? really would like to know before purchasing one with 1 peg.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2010 23:38:28 GMT
A single mekugi was good enough for the majority of authentic katana used throughout history. That being said, if they are made properly, one will suffice. However, two can give an added safety measure if they are done properly. I would rather have one good one than two that were put in badly.
I would not let a single mekugi prevent me from making a purchase on a sword I wanted assuming it was from a reputable forge. Offering an option is fairly rare.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2010 23:40:23 GMT
i heard that 2 mekugi is more secure (which i think is true) but on old pieces i've seen on the net rare were the ones that has 2 mekugi... one seem traditionnal but maybe the others could help me too in this i was wondering the same thing myself lately
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Dom T.
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Post by Dom T. on Aug 27, 2010 23:59:37 GMT
I believe the old pieces (nihonto), for the most part, only needed one mekugi because the tsuka had a good friction fit to the nakago (they were carved individually to fit each sword, for the most part). Most of our production katana have the tsuka hammered on, shimmed, etc. so they don't fit very well. The second mekugi is to make up for that bad fit, making the 'flying helicopter of death' a little less likely.
...My guess, anyways.
*added some words, just because I felt like it.
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Post by chrisperoni on Aug 28, 2010 0:05:18 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2010 0:20:15 GMT
I believe the old pieces (nihonto), for the most part, only needed one mekugi because the tsuka had a good friction fit to the nakago (they were carved individually to fit each sword, for the most part). Most of our production katana have the tsuka hammered on, shimmed, etc. so they don't fit very well. The second mekugi is to make up for that bad fit, making the 'flying helicopter of death' a little less likely. ...My guess, anyways. *added some words, just because I felt like it. The traditional method is a single mekugi peg. The reason for the second peg is ad Dom states sloppy tsuka work. Modern tsuka in production pieces commonly has voids in them around the nakago (tang). This can cause movement. The second peg is to stop that movement of pivoting upon the first mekugi peg making the voids bigger, or cracking the tsuka during strikes. 90eclipse If your looking at purchasing a sword with a single peg it is likely that they have fitted the tsuka to that nakago much better than any you find with double pegs. This is not for sure since I don't know anything about the sword your looking at, but I would guess anyone making a sword these days with a single peg has fitted the tsuka or they would have added the double peg. So you might be actually looking at a decent tsuka on the sword with just a single peg. It is a sign of a higher level of craftsmanship. Though not always perfectly accurate, so look at the other details and if it has good alternating wrap, less flashy fittings and more functional made of solid metals rather than alloys. If the rest of the work seems done with pride and integrity you can probably trust the tsuka is made well. Worst case you can always drill a second mekugi ana and put in a second peg. *edit Just a little explanation of what the two pegs do. The first peg close to the tsuba it to retain the blade in the tuska, the second peg is to prevent the pivot effect when the tsuka is not fitted properly.
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Post by lobsterhunter on Aug 28, 2010 0:25:13 GMT
If the tsuka/nakago fit is good, one mekugi should be perfectly safe and practical. I think the 2nd peg in modern production swords are a sort of an insurance policy against the highly unlikely scenario of one of them falling out unnoticed. I remember someone explaining how a poorly aligned 2 mekugi setup could be more dangerous because of the stress placed on the pegs as they "wrestle" against each other, thereby weakening them. The 1 mekugi method seems consistent with traditional Japanese aesthetics which values simplicity of form and function.
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Post by lobsterhunter on Aug 28, 2010 0:32:04 GMT
I believe the old pieces (nihonto), for the most part, only needed one mekugi because the tsuka had a good friction fit to the nakago (they were carved individually to fit each sword, for the most part). Most of our production katana have the tsuka hammered on, shimmed, etc. so they don't fit very well. The second mekugi is to make up for that bad fit, making the 'flying helicopter of death' a little less likely. ...My guess, anyways. *added some words, just because I felt like it. The traditional method is a single mekugi peg. The reason for the second peg is ad Dom states sloppy tsuka work. Modern tsuka in production pieces commonly has voids in them around the nakago (tang). This can cause movement. The second peg is to stop that movement of pivoting upon the first mekugi peg making the voids bigger, or cracking the tsuka during strikes. 90eclipse If your looking at purchasing a sword with a single peg it is likely that they have fitted the tsuka to that nakago much better than any you find with double pegs. This is not for sure since I don't know anything about the sword your looking at, but I would guess anyone making a sword these days with a single peg has fitted the tsuka or they would have added the double peg. So you might be actually looking at a decent tsuka on the sword with just a single peg. It is a sign of a higher level of craftsmanship. Though not always perfectly accurate, so look at the other details and if it has good alternating wrap, less flashy fittings and more functional made of solid metals rather than alloys. If the rest of the work seems done with pride and integrity you can probably trust the tsuka is made well. Worst case you can always drill a second mekugi ana and put in a second peg. *edit Just a little explanation of what the two pegs do. The first peg close to the tsuba it to retain the blade in the tuska, the second peg is to prevent the pivot effect when the tsuka is not fitted properly. Ah, that makes sense. The 2 mekugi method is more about preventing movement of the nakago than safety.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2010 1:04:40 GMT
I believe the old pieces (nihonto), for the most part, only needed one mekugi because the tsuka had a good friction fit to the nakago (they were carved individually to fit each sword, for the most part). Most of our production katana have the tsuka hammered on, shimmed, etc. so they don't fit very well. The second mekugi is to make up for that bad fit, making the 'flying helicopter of death' a little less likely. ...My guess, anyways. *added some words, just because I felt like it. The traditional method is a single mekugi peg. The reason for the second peg is ad Dom states sloppy tsuka work. Modern tsuka in production pieces commonly has voids in them around the nakago (tang). This can cause movement. The second peg is to stop that movement of pivoting upon the first mekugi peg making the voids bigger, or cracking the tsuka during strikes. 90eclipse If your looking at purchasing a sword with a single peg it is likely that they have fitted the tsuka to that nakago much better than any you find with double pegs. This is not for sure since I don't know anything about the sword your looking at, but I would guess anyone making a sword these days with a single peg has fitted the tsuka or they would have added the double peg. So you might be actually looking at a decent tsuka on the sword with just a single peg. It is a sign of a higher level of craftsmanship. Though not always perfectly accurate, so look at the other details and if it has good alternating wrap, less flashy fittings and more functional made of solid metals rather than alloys. If the rest of the work seems done with pride and integrity you can probably trust the tsuka is made well. Worst case you can always drill a second mekugi ana and put in a second peg. *edit Just a little explanation of what the two pegs do. The first peg close to the tsuba it to retain the blade in the tuska, the second peg is to prevent the pivot effect when the tsuka is not fitted properly.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2010 1:12:49 GMT
dom t, love the supernatural pic of dean! ineffableone i am undecided on the hanwei practical ninjato still waiting to hear from them on if it is full tang or would have enough tang for a second mekugi, and the oniyuri by cheness which has 2 mekugi, budget is a question its a $100 jump to the cheness but have seen the demonstration. also heard hanwei makes nice peices? anyone own or seen either in sessions?
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Post by lobsterhunter on Aug 28, 2010 1:32:02 GMT
I've had my paws on a Hanwei Practical Ninjato for a few minutes. Nice sword. I think they glue on the tsuka but I'm not sure about that. I own a Oniyuri. I've never cut anything with it but it's very agile but with good blade presence. It handles quite unlike any other katana because of its extra long tsuka and short blade. I'm thinking about selling it along with another kat of mine. I'll post it in the classifieds in the next few days.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2010 1:37:09 GMT
Here's a thread that shows a Hanwei Practical Ninjato broken apart. www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87827There is plenty of nakago in there, and it really doesn't need a second mekugi as you literally need to take a hammer and chisel to the tsuka to get it off. It's epoxied on very firmly.
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Dom T.
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Post by Dom T. on Aug 28, 2010 1:58:36 GMT
Hahahah, Supernatural fans unite!
Oh, whoops, that didn't add anything.
*Oh, on the Cheness, I actually have one, w/o bo-hi. Basically I was pretty disappointed with it. Then again, I'm more of a collector than a cutter, so I put a lot of emphasis on aesthetics. Also, when it comes to cutting, I prefer single-handers, so the super-long tsuka did nothing for me. It actually annoys me. I feel like it's just too long. Makes the balance feel all funny, imo, since the tang is as long as the tsuka. I'd rather it be 10" instead. Aesthetically, I think the Hanwei Ninjato looks better, even with the fake samegawa (my younger brother has one, so I've actually compared the two... made a super long post about it a few months ago...). Durability wise, the Cheness is likely to be better though. Hanwei makes a lot of their Japanese swords on the thin side, with no niku....
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2010 5:15:42 GMT
thank you hyoujinsama for that link i was considering the paul chen now im not thinking so that is alot of work if i want to clean and oil it also i didnt see the swordsmiths engraving,no wonder they dont show pics of it broke down. dom t did you ever break down your cheness? i know it is double pegged still confused on why hanwei would epoxy?
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Post by chrisperoni on Aug 28, 2010 5:19:50 GMT
just a question: is it possible for a kat to have only 1 peg because the maker was trying to save on costs, rather than because they took extra care in manufacture?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2010 5:20:44 GMT
lobsterhunter let me know on the oniyuri, i like it because it was supposed to be designed after dr. hatsumi sword. if you have it for a nice price i would deffinitly be interested.
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Post by lobsterhunter on Aug 28, 2010 8:03:09 GMT
90eclipse,
I bought the Oniyuri from the SBG store last year for $249.99. They're selling it for $234.99 now. I'm selling mine for $150. The tsuka ito is slightly worn looking but still tight. I noticed that the habaki was slightly loose a few months ago so I wrapped some dental floss (the unwaxed, unflavored kind) around, in the crack between the seppa and tsuba to tighten it. I'll post some pictures of it in the next few days and PM you before I put it up for sale in the classifieds section. You'll get first dibs if you're interested.
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