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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2008 0:57:58 GMT
I want to get one of Cheness's 9260 steel blade katanas in shirasaya but before I get in over my head and waste a lot of time I want to ask some things. I have looked at that 'Shinken construction in modern age' thing and it is awesome but I want to hear the opinions of you experienced people.
How hard is it to make a saya and tsuka, the chiseling and sanding etc.? What woods can be used? In that how it's made thing it says Poplar but what else? How hard is this wood to chisel and do you have any tips? Should I just suck it up and buy a tenchi?
I'm asking these questions because none of the already put together swords really appeal to me and if possible I'd like to try and make one that fits my tastes.
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Post by 293master293 on May 29, 2008 2:25:30 GMT
I can't help you in the making of the saya/tsuka, but I will say this, I have heard that the tsuka and saya is the hardest part of the Japanese sword to make. If you want true custom made stuff that is.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2008 21:22:09 GMT
well i dont make tsuka exactly but i do use that method for all my knife handles but i would say to do it right and make it authentic im pretty sure it will cost the same as getting one that is already in fittings. i would suggest getting a katana that is already in its fittings and then simply take them off and make new tsuka and saya for the bare blade. thats just what i would do. people say that hickory is the best for the handle because it is so tough. as for the saya i would use poplar because it is not known for its strength...but it does not have knots so carving out the cavity is fairly easy. wood would cost (for high quality stuff) close to 20 bucks then you would need the tools. and silk and cotton ito isnt so cheap (50 bucks or so for one tsuka) but i have found nylon stuff that is very cheap. www.knifekits.com/vcom/product_info.php?cPath=40_219&products_id=1139http://www.knifekits.com/vcom/product_info.php?cPath=40_219&products_id=1139then you would have to find the kashira and fuchi as well as rayskin (i have seen it on ebay a few times)
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Post by Matt993f.o.d on May 29, 2008 21:47:55 GMT
I can't help you in the making of the saya/tsuka, but I will say this, I have heard that the tsuka and saya is the hardest part of the Japanese sword to make. If you want true custom made stuff that is. Saya and Tsuka making come into the category of woodworking, which is somewhat different from metal working, you will agree! Saying that Tsuka and saya making is the hardest part of making a Japanese sword is therefore a pure contradiction in terms! I would just buy the Tenchi, but that is just me. I hate woodworking! As for Saya and Tsuka making, do some reading. Plenty of good books and websites around. Do a search.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2008 22:12:46 GMT
or just buy one with fittings and then just customize it
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slav
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Post by slav on May 30, 2008 2:41:35 GMT
Why not just buy the blade in shirasaya, and then re-finish the saya, and re-shape/wrap the tsuka, and then add custom fittings? Then you don't have to worry about doing any inletting, glueing, or rough shaping. That's what I did with my hira: Before: After:
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2008 4:11:29 GMT
dam slav thats sexy!
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Post by Matt993f.o.d on May 30, 2008 21:58:39 GMT
That's some pretty nice work you did there. Looks all like it grew there.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2008 22:36:51 GMT
Agreed 100% with Slav. I came to pretty much the same conclusion regarding a sword i'm planning to remount. Decided i'll try to find someone who'll do something similiar to that shirasaya Slav posted. I'm afraid i lack the needed skills for that and it'd probably take way too much time if i were to try and do it. Now, i hope i'll find someone willing to make it for some acceptable price.
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Post by 293master293 on May 30, 2008 23:50:30 GMT
I can't help you in the making of the saya/tsuka, but I will say this, I have heard that the tsuka and saya is the hardest part of the Japanese sword to make. If you want true custom made stuff that is. Saya and Tsuka making come into the category of woodworking, which is somewhat different from metal working, you will agree! Saying that Tsuka and saya making is the hardest part of making a Japanese sword is therefore a pure contradiction in terms! Sorry, I ment besides the blade. The tsuka/saya are the hardest of the fittings to make.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2008 2:01:53 GMT
Slavia, I have heard that one reason not to do that with a shirasaya is that a shirasaya is generally not fitted as well to the blade as one would want for a tsuka and saya... how have you found yours?
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2008 3:47:51 GMT
Thanks for all the replies!
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Post by Dan Davis on May 31, 2008 11:57:24 GMT
Slavia, I have heard that one reason not to do that with a shirasaya is that a shirasaya is generally not fitted as well to the blade as one would want for a tsuka and saya... how have you found yours? Correct; as a general rule. Shirasaya are supposed to be fitted far tighter than regular saya to reduce the airspace inside and make for a lower oxidation rate ( funny aside: older shirasaya were made far looser for the same reason ). Shirasaya are supposed to be held together very lightly, so that if the wood swells you can pry it apart to get at the blade. In practice most of the production sword makers simply use a standard tsuka and saya, without finishing them. What this means to the user is that you MAY be able to refinish a shirasaya into a full tsuka, but you need an experienced eye to tell if that is possible.
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slav
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Post by slav on May 31, 2008 17:23:54 GMT
Agreed with Dan. That is true if you are talking about genuine Nihonto, and saya made by true sayashi. But I highly doubt that modern low-end production forges (even when making a custom such as mine) would know/care to follow this trend. My guess is that Cheness' shirasaya are fitted to their blades just the same as their koshirae mountings.
My shirasaya seemed to be fitted to the blade about the same as a decent quality tsuka and saya should. It fits quite a bit more nicely than--say--Cheness, because it was a completely custom piece and the shirasaya was made specifically for the blade. Still, it did not seem to be an attempt at a "true" shirasaya (extra tight, extra loose, etc.) so I took the liberty of converting it into koshirae. I suspect that it would be safe to do the same with most production swords that come in Shirasaya.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2008 13:16:19 GMT
Hey slavia, did you trim the tsuka a little so that the tsuba is able to be placed?
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slav
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Post by slav on Jun 3, 2008 1:39:33 GMT
Yes I did. I used a fine hacksaw blade, and finished the end with my 1x30 belt grinder.
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