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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2010 1:15:24 GMT
Okay, I made that custom belt for Sirtre. Well, knowing Brenno's beliefs about animals I was wondering if he would appreciate a sword belt that could be made without using animal products. I offered to make Brenno a belt and he would only have to pay me the shipping costs to the land down under. The only animal product being used in this project is beeswax and that is simply a cord preservative not a necessity. Now, Brenno gave me his waist size and told me that the only sword he currently has that also has a scabbard is his Hanwei Gustav rapier. This is a bit heavier and longer than the Jin-Shi Sirtre uses so I need to modify my belt pattern slightly. What I'm doing here is that from app 4" past the buckle section and out for the next eight inches doubling the width of the belt so that it can be folded over so that the section of the belt the frog assembly hangs on is reinforced. Now, being this is for the man behind Fable Blades this belt has to be something special. This is where the pattern swatches in the pictures come in. After the reinforced section of the belt it will be going into that pattern stitch for the next 18-24 inches before being collapsed back into the main part of the belt. I will update pics as work progresses.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2010 6:39:56 GMT
Looking sweet, dude... I like the two color scheme.
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on Jan 1, 2010 14:02:26 GMT
Thats gonna be great. Thanks Liam! I just measured that the pivot/balance point is only 2" below the opening of the scabbard, so it will have to run high I guess to keep it tip down. I don't know if knowing that will assist in the design. I've never used a suspension system before. Cheers!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2010 14:38:05 GMT
Sirtre, Actually I was going to make the entire belt in the Natural color, I just did the pattern swatches in some left over black cord, but I like that thought. Natural ends with a black pattern section, that could be nice. If I have enough cord, maybe some black trim.... (thinking.....)
Brenno, Okay, 2" below the throat of the scabbard is actually fairly good, it means one retaining strap will be in front of that point and the second longer strap will be behind that point. The hardware is going to be silver nickel, but I haven't placed the order with Tandy leather yet. Sirtre mentioned he had trouble with the D-rings on his belt twisting slightly so I'm going with round saddle rings for yours. Between those and the reinforced section this should have no problem holding your Gustav, but given the length of that sword I am going to have to go with a very shallow carry angle possibly less than the normal 20-30 degrees. Rather than make the longer retaining strap 2.5" (6.3 cm) I think if I only make it 1.5" (3.4cm) that should hold the blade at a comfortable angle.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2010 16:24:20 GMT
Liam, if this catches on real good... you might have a permanent job. Imagine how Apple computers and Microsoft Corp started just working in the garage. Even a lot of sword sales started off just working in the bedroom on the internet. These belts not only look nice, they are practical for wearing your sword.
I believe that in a couple of months, you need to make one that will hold a Chinese Dao. That should be made to fit you.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2010 17:10:17 GMT
One of those might be in the works on back burner. But right now I've got Brenno's belt to get made, a bunch of jewelry to get done (my bread and butter stuff right there), and I've had a few belt inquiries from parents looking to help there kids spend some x-mas cash. We'll have to see how this goes.
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on Jan 2, 2010 1:02:59 GMT
Awesome. I expect the normal carry angle should be ok. I'm 5'10 so I've got fairly long legs I look forward to it. But don't prioritise it. Do your bread and butter stuff first. Cheers
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2010 3:06:31 GMT
Waiting on supplies for the bread and butter stuff Your belt will end up being on hold once those get here and I'm waiting for the belt hardware to arrive.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2010 16:55:05 GMT
Alrighty then, time for a pictorial update. Now what I didn't explain very well in my original post is how many changes I have had to make to my original belt pattern and why. Now, as many of you know I don't actually own any swords - I have some cheap (not suitable for sparring) wasters I use for forms practice and drills, and some machetes I use as sharps and for what little practice cutting I get to do. This puts me at a disadvantage when it comes to making sword accessories because, well lightweight wasters are exactly that light weight, I need real sword weight to actually test how durable these things are. Now, I do know a bit about leather working and have done some in the past, but don't have the needed tools or work space to do much leather working at the moment. Anyway, I've been working with hemp cord for a few years now using a variety of different techniques. I have found that hemp jewelry cord does make a good leather substitute - it's strong, fairly easy to work with, adaptable, and much more economical to purchase for small items than leather cord of comparable thickness. 1mm 3ply hemp cord is 20# test, 1.5mm 3ply if 48# test, and the 3mm "Monster" hemp is a full 500# test. My original thought was to use macrame techniques and the "Monster" hemp to start making these belts. However, this posed some problems, "Monster" hemp is scratchy, generally only available un-dyed, and when made into a belt very stiff. I'm talking, that this stuff is so stiff that it is almost impossible to use it with a standard bar style belt buckle, bend it into a "Knightly Knot" to use a single O-ring closure, or double it back through a double ring closure. The other varieties of hemp just end of being too thin when worked to make an effective belt. Now this is using macrame and braiding techniques. However, I know another technique for working with cord and yarn - crochet. The only variety of hemp that takes well to crochet is the 1mm 20# test hemp. Yet, this thin hemp has advantages - it comes in a variety of colors, it is readily available at most stores with a "craft" or fabric department, it is fairly inexpensive, and using crochet techniques I can make 20# hemp into just about anything I can imagine. Crocheted hemp also comes out much more cloth-like than braided or macrame worked hemp so it lays much flatter against the body for more comfortable wearing, and it comes out more flexible which gives me a much wider range of hardware options. I can even combine the different types of hemp to possibly make a sword belt that eliminates the metal hardware altogether (this may be a future project, I'm not sure). The main and only disadvantages of using crochet as a technique are that it takes a lot of cord to make anything - to the point I lose my cost advantage over leather, and that it takes quite a bit of time to get projects made. I could probably make about 10-20 leather belts in the time it takes me to make one hemp belt. This is where we get into the details. I practice Chinese Swordsmanship, specifically Taijiquan (T'ai Chi Ch'uan) sword. Chinese blades tend to be very light compared to blades from other areas. So my first few attempts at belt making were set up for light weight blades of a reasonable length for single handed swords (27-32" blades). Sirtre's Jin Shi only weights in at 1.5 pounds. I was also limiting myself by using fittings obtainable at the local Hobby Lobby. Now, after talking to Brenno I found out he would be wearing his Hanwei Gustav Rapier. Personally, I do think this is a beautiful sword. Yet this rapier is longer, thinner, and heavier than the Chinese Jians I was originally designed these belts for. So time for modifications to my standard pattern. I mentioned some of these in my first post but I will go into more detail here. Now, when working with 20# hemp I normally use a US "F" crochet hook (3.75mm) this gives me a fairly tight weave and allows me to work reasonably fast. However, Sirtre informed me this leaves the belts a bit too flexible to support heavier blades. So, modification number one - I switched to a smaller hook, in this case a US "D" crochet hook (3.25mm). Now I have an even tighter less flexible weave but still lose enough to comfortably wrap around a body and bend through any number of different buckles. Of course with smaller stitching my labor time increases. Modification number two, I'm adding reinforcement to key areas of the belt. Finally, the third modification I will be making, is changing the type of hardware that I have been using. Instead of the locally sourced D-rings that my previous belts have featured (which Sirtre informed me have an annoying tendency to twist out of place) I will be ordering heavier duty hardware from a leather supply company to be able to handle the increased weight and pull of the different blade. As I have not yet been able to order the hardware components I don't have any comparison pictures yet, but I'm raiding the "Saddle Hardware" section of a nation leather supply company for suitably heavy duty goods. Now for the fun part, the updated pics of how this thing is turning out. Progress so far Pic #1Progress so far Pic #2Pattern DetailThe eight repetitions of the "web" lace pattern represent the numerological value of the term "prosperity." This, of course, is a bonus for any merchant or artisan. Given the detail and beauty of Brenno's work a plain belt just won't cut it, and even with the Hanwei the blade has such an intricate hilt design that a plain belt just would not be right. Now since the lace pattern does sacrifice a great deal of the structural strength of the belt, I will be needing to make a backing section for it which I have not started yet. The two color scheme was suggested earlier in this thread and I decided to go with it. The backing to the pattern section will be done in the natural colored hemp to provide contrast to the black lace. I will also be going with silver nickel hardware to again provide contrast and match the hilt of the rapier. More pics to come as work progresses.
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Avery
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"It's alright little brother... There are more!!!
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Post by Avery on Jan 7, 2010 0:47:10 GMT
Liam, these belts of yours look great man!....oh...I meant Sir Liam..;D I've some Ideas on a belt as well, but I won't hijack the thread, PM coming soon.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2010 2:56:07 GMT
I think , Sir Liam, you are doing a very kind deed with these animal friendly belts and sending custom job to A friend in Australia is very kind as well. I bestow thou a karma. I may need thy services sometime in the future when I get some swords.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2010 4:17:46 GMT
Avery, I Pm'ed you back. Makato, I see you're in TN since I'm in KY I speak the language of the locals, so I am quite fluent in redneck. Anyway, the link to my shop is in the signature under my posts. When you arrive at my commercial site look on the right hand side for a link that says "request custom item." I will do my best to treat you well.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2010 21:17:55 GMT
Alright I was supposed to post update pics yesterday but I go distracted (Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion for X-Box 360 I shouldn't let things like that distract me, but I've been a gamer for a long time and old habits die hard.) Anyway, here are the updated pics: Length so Far:Pattern Detail Better View:Back Reinforcement Detail:
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Post by tajima on Jan 8, 2010 23:29:54 GMT
Nice belt. Not really my style, reminds me of old people too much, but that's just my taste. I can understand how people find it attractive though. There is a whole lot of effort there. Keep at it! What I wanted to say was, Nice Choice of Game! What character do you play? Thanks, -Brett
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2010 3:30:25 GMT
Old people belts.... Okay then.
Anyway I just started playing Oblivion, but I'm a Breton Assassin. My wife is playing a dark elf battlemage, and no, we don't play on x-box live.
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Post by tajima on Jan 9, 2010 8:39:05 GMT
Aww, you made me feel bad for saying that. But I mean, it reminds me a lot of crocheting (Isn't it?) and it reminded me of my Nan. She used to do a lot of that.
Don't take offence to it.
And you can't play on XBL, I don't think?
Thanks, -Brett
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2010 12:29:50 GMT
Yes, I'm using crochet techniques for these belts. No offense taken, and I didn't mean to make you feel bad about saying that, but you did phrase yourself a bit badly, sorry about that Crochet, knitting, spinning, weaving, finger weaving, leather and cord braiding, and even leather working are all slowly becoming lost arts in this post industrial age. That's why young people, like you, tend to connect these arts to two or more generations back ie grand parents and great grandparents. For the last few generations it has been easier and less expensive to go buy something at a store that has been mass produced in a factory than to take the time to make it yourself. So these old arts have dwindled. I'm trying to do what little I can to keep them alive, because knowledge, especially knowledge that can lead towards self-reliance, is something worth saving. Okay, I'll put away the soap box now
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Post by tajima on Jan 9, 2010 12:31:22 GMT
N'aww, I get that. It's all true.
I respect you for using these techniques. Just not my cup of tea is all :/
I'd love to learn leatherwork, but I can't buy it...
Thanks, -Brett
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2010 17:14:21 GMT
Leather working is actually pretty simple. If you go to the website for Tandy leather (the main supplier in the US) you can find a beginner kit with instructions very reasonably.
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Post by tajima on Jan 9, 2010 22:04:56 GMT
Yea, but I've had trouble ordering animal based products in to Australia.
You'll be fine with these belts though, I assume - if you mark them correctly.
Australian Quarantine is a semprini.
Thanks, -Brett
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