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Post by mrstabby on Apr 29, 2024 16:08:30 GMT
Having derailed another thread, I thought it best to open something new. Just thought might be fun. Which ones do you have, which do you like best? Also questions and answers.
I just got the Kukuri Plus, I like it so far. The newer chinese CSes seem to be a thicker stock of 65Mn, the Kuk is also 3mm, as is my newer Bowie machete (whick I love, though the grip on the Kukuri is better, more grippy yet comfortable). The chinese made ones also are no longer convex/apleseeded, but the apex is better and polished, no more nasty burrs. The angle on both sides is as different as it was on the south african ones. Does the SA Kukuri+ also have a rough coating? My BlackBear and Cutlass are very smooth, like paint, the Kukuri, Bowie and Kopis are very rough, like brushed steel. Kopis is SA, so is the finish connected to the series they come from?
The one I like the least is the Jungle, the grip is thin and has no swell (easy to fix though), so it's slippery, and it's extremely blade heavy. Very good chopper, not so good for long use.
One I like very much is the Bowie, light, nice to use for weeding, very similar to the Black Bear, but I find the grip more comfortable, although some kind of guard would be nice. It would be nicer if the Grip wasn't PP but the TPU like the Kukuri, although since it isn't one of these monster Grips like Kopis of BlackBear you can easily wrap it.
Kukuri+ I like so far, feels kind of similar to the Windlass Kukuris with 30cm/12" blade, so well done CS for getting the Kukuri-feel kind of right. The only difference is, that the grip feels lighter on the CS, the CSis 100g lighter and it feels like they took all that weight from the grip but the PoB is exactly the same for either (~9cm/3,5").
The one I like the most is the Kopis, so much fun, very good cutter. There are only 2 things about it I don't like so much, the grip is fat and the blade could be thicker (AFIAK many agree with me there). If CS ever re-releases this one thicker with a more comfortable grip, I'll buy it without hesitation. Most Kopis/Falcata I have seen are much too heavy for my liking but I love the blade shape.
The Cutlass is allright, but not as nimble as I had expected.
Now I wonder, the Magnum Kukuri is advertized as 2mm stock, is this one also thicker now? By how much? If anyone has the Kukuri+ or the Bowie I would appreciate some measurements, how much does 0,2mm thickness add in weight. I might buy a D-Guard Latin, very cheap right now and also 2mm stock, but will the wife kill me with my own blade?
Kukuri+ is 509g/1lbs 1,6oz and the bowie is 430g/15,2oz.
My other questions: How big is the Royal Kukuri? I find it listed with a 35cm/13,8", 38/15" and 40cm/15,7" blade - if it's the last one it could be a nice alternative to the Jungle machete. PoB would also be interesting.
I think I have blathered on long enough without knowing if there even is interest for this Thread.
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Post by shinycanoe on Apr 29, 2024 16:39:53 GMT
I bought this CS machete in about 2008 or 2009. Weirdly the last 3 inches did not come sharpened, so right out of the box I had to add an edge to it. It has held up well for gardening use, and I have re-sharpened it a few times. I agree that the grip is not the best, and the weight distribution makes it tiring to use for long periods. But for a garden tool I'd recommend it if the price is right. My son enjoys cutting up pumpkins with it after Halloween.
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Post by mrstabby on Apr 29, 2024 17:14:19 GMT
I bought this CS machete in about 2008 or 2009. Weirdly the last 3 inches did not come sharpened, so right out of the box I had to add an edge to it. It has held up well for gardening use, and I have re-sharpened it a few times. I agree that the grip is not the best, and the weight distribution makes it tiring to use for long periods. But for a garden tool I'd recommend it if the price is right. My son enjoys cutting up pumpkins with it after Halloween. On latin type machetes the last bit, where the bend up towards the tip is, is often not sharpened so it might have been intentional (not sure why this is, have heard it's for safety, others said that it does not cut the sheath - weakest argument in my opinion - or that you can dig with it). I have seen something like this mentioned on Gadii though, the last 1" being totally unsharpened, sprang up a few times up until the mid 2010s.
Iam primarily looking at them as garden tools anyways, but for Bolo/Latin type I find Tramontina is better bang for the buck. They will definately have an unsharpened tip, leads to bad reviws unfortunately, even if it is 100% as it should be - still, I always sharpen the tip.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Apr 30, 2024 4:50:21 GMT
CS machetes are always fun to discuss. Btw did you get my pm about the PoB of the RKM? Or is this a case of lost pm for the other thread? I only buy CS machetes that are "swordlike", have some kid of guard. The Chinese Broadsword machete is the heaviest afaik but also a light dadao replica. And turn it 180° and you have a Morgan bible chopper! I have the old two handed katana machete which is doubtless the ugliest sword ever made. The tactical katana machete is a good nimble sword, but with an uncomfortable grip, the sharp hard fake tsukamaki pattern. I first smoothed it with a creme brulee burner, worked ok. Better with grip band.
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Post by mrstabby on Apr 30, 2024 6:06:26 GMT
Btw did you get my pm about the PoB of the RKM? Huh, No. Maybe there is something to this thread?
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Apr 30, 2024 8:46:15 GMT
Yeah, the following text I copied from my pm/Messages section, from our thread:
23 Apr 2024 at 06:02 Hi, der PoB liegt ca. 12 cm vom Griff entfernt.
No information that you didn't receive it.
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Post by Sir Thorfinn on Apr 30, 2024 13:25:16 GMT
I LOVED my Kopis, and gave it to a friend. I'm not a huge fan of my cutlass machete. But I plan to either mod it to my satisfaction, or pitch it.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on May 1, 2024 7:04:09 GMT
I remember when I got my cutlass machete and didn't like the handling too. Gripping it a bit like pommeling a viking sword helped. I reprofiled the tip, sharped the clip point backside, removed the black laquer, blued it black again later to test laquer inscription for my Stormbringer project. And of course a grip band wrap. Somewhere on this journey I couldn't complain about the handling any more, dunno why. The sheaths can be a problem with those machetes which are getting broader above the hilt. My chinese broadsword machete and the royal kukri have a sheath which opens at the side and is closed with strips with buttons which always get in the way if I want to sheath it. I got more than one cut in a finger when trying to insert the machete.
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Post by hawthorn on May 1, 2024 13:03:53 GMT
my last one was a barong
the barong was a really scary blade
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LeMal
Member
Posts: 1,103
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Post by LeMal on May 1, 2024 13:37:42 GMT
My favorite, as I said before, even though I have most, is the long discontinued seax ('sax") machete.
I did finally get my hands on a Chinese WS machete though on Midway's big sale. I've long thought that, with the handle lopped short and a pommel (riveted from the sides on the tang in two pieces) put on, it'd make a nice little old falchion.
And it will.
That is all.
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Post by mrstabby on May 1, 2024 13:43:36 GMT
Cold Steel still has something that looks identical to the discontinued sax, "Cold Steel Woodsman’s Sax" (CST-88HUA), it's a lot more costly though. I imagine the Tanto machete could be remodeled to the seax quite easily.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on May 1, 2024 16:12:26 GMT
The Chinese Broadsword machete could be grinded to a kopesh machete.
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LeMal
Member
Posts: 1,103
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Post by LeMal on May 1, 2024 17:00:21 GMT
Cold Steel still has something that looks identical to the discontinued sax, "Cold Steel Woodsman’s Sax" (CST-88HUA), it's a lot more costly though. I imagine the Tanto machete could be remodeled to the seax quite easily. Woodsman's is short too. Should've mentioned what I got and love is the 18" blade long version. (Two, at ten bucks each--no shipping since it was when visiting the showroom when it was still in Ventura and I was passing through. Ah, those were the days. ;) )
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LeMal
Member
Posts: 1,103
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Post by LeMal on May 1, 2024 17:01:09 GMT
The Chinese Broadsword machete could be grinded to a kopesh machete. Yeah, but that's more grinding than this lazy boy wants to do. 😜
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on May 1, 2024 17:50:43 GMT
Exactly!
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Post by mrstabby on May 1, 2024 17:50:43 GMT
Cold Steel still has something that looks identical to the discontinued sax, "Cold Steel Woodsman’s Sax" (CST-88HUA), it's a lot more costly though. I imagine the Tanto machete could be remodeled to the seax quite easily. Woodsman's is short too. Should've mentioned what I got and love is the 18" blade long version. (Two, at ten bucks each--no shipping since it was when visiting the showroom when it was still in Ventura and I was passing through. Ah, those were the days. ) Oh, I didn't know there was an 18" version.
I am not so sure if a Kopesh would work with that blade length and the 2,8mm stock from the Chinese War sword, the Cutlass is already a bit too flexible, or the wrong kind of flexible because no distal taper and thin, and the Kopesh geometry would create a lot of stress at the "neck".
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Post by izzy on May 1, 2024 18:16:23 GMT
Hmm now I am interested...3mm is almost thick enough to be a sword....especially if it's wide with no distal taper...65Mn is a definite improvement over 1055 in my book...( please let us not argue about 1055 vs. 65Mn, we all have our preferences, and I respect those who just love their 1050/ 1055, Just not my cup of tea).
Dare to compare:
Paul Chen DaDao:
169 USD to 190 USD
1566 Steel at 48-52 HRC ( Soft)
5mm to 2.2 mm Thick w/ distal taper
About 2 pounds 7 oz
22" Blade
Cold Steel Chinese Sword Machete ( aka DaDao):
38 USD at MidwayUSA
65mn Steel (?) or 1055 if one is unlucky and it's old stock.
HRC Maybe 50 (?), maybe a tad higher if 65Mn (?)
3mm thick ( 2.8 if unlucky?)
About 2 Pounds 9 oz
24 Inch Blade ( does that include the steel cut out guard?)
My only concern is it does not show up on the Cold Steel Website, and is on BackOrder on both KOA and Midway:
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Post by mrstabby on May 1, 2024 18:50:18 GMT
The newer 3mm/65Mn blades definately feel less flexible (likely more to do with the 0,2mm than the steel). Hardness is around the same, 50-ish, both of mine are equal hardness. If they are on back order they will be newly produced chinese ones, pretty sure, they are getting available now. I ordered my Bowie 6 months ago and it came a few weeks back. The Kukuri came instantly. They are stocking up right now. I have been thinking of ordering a China cutlass for more stable blade, but it likely be even blade heavier. I'd be very interested in weights of the Kukuri plus with the 2,8mm blade, my 3mm model is 510g/1,12lbs. Probably could extrapolate for the others.
EDIT: I have made a new entryway in the hedge with the 65Mn Kukuri+, and it might have slightly more apex stability, But that might also not be the steel but the different grind, it looks steeper.
Edit2: Yeah, old edge angle is 19°/Side; New is 22°/Side, that will definately be more stable, even if the other one is convex, although a very fast and dirty measurement, it surely isn't far off.
Edit3: I have played around with angles before and found <20° a bit too easy to damage, 25° sturdy and above 27° not good for cutting. I am therefore pretty sure that the difference will make a difference
Edit4-I'mfinished,honest: The Tramontina have better steel, if you can get one in 24" that has a wood handle I would use Tramontina. The 24" plastic handle is only 2,1mm thick, that's a bit flimsy, the woiod one is 2,8mm and should be around 30$. The steel is 1075 and around 55HRC, definately does better in every way than the CS ones. Or Imacasa is also pretty good (these even have distal taper) - no way to get for me in EU unfortunately.
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Post by izzy on May 1, 2024 20:47:07 GMT
Thank you for your insight MrStabby....yah it all looks good on paper...still weird it's not on the CS Site though, is that normal for CS when something is not in stock? Some of my My Tramontina are are from years ago, one ( bolo) is over 20 years old...likely before they upped the HRC, as I found the one I used the most ( bolo) pretty soft for the abuse it took but still took a wicked edge when I touched up, which was often. I noticed on a Tramontina Gauacho blade once I got past the "burnt" steel it was reasonably hard underneath, but not so much with that old Bolo machete...times change.
Imcasa tend to run thin and hard for the Latin market where a light machete is preferred.
I have a thin, wide, cheap Chinese "no name" cane machete that is HARD, but takes abuse including pounding on rock, bought it at a local Shop run by Chinese folk...some examples have a slight warp from heat treat which I take as a good sign at about 1.4mm thickness at the base tapering even thiner. Cost me all of 3.33 USD per unit after currency conversion. I sure would not mind a bigger thicker version of that whatever steel it is...but if CS is still running 65Mn soft, it would be inferior to 1075 run at mid range hardness, which is a bit of a shame in my book. ( not that the Paul Chen DaDao is any harder on paper, unless one gets "lucky"). LK Chen makes a nice Dadao...their style is thick in the spine, but thinner in blade width and 56-58 HRC, but the sheath needs replacing ASAP. Just looking for a cheap beater, CS Dadao and Kukri is still a "possibility" for me due to price, at that level one can take it out and have some fun with no guilt, and save the good stuff.
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Post by mrstabby on May 2, 2024 10:08:06 GMT
The war sword machete is on the german CS page but not on the US, weird. It says "model of 2017" so it might be left over stock and not really produced at all? The Kopis isn't anywhere on the CS pages but still can be found in a few shops around EU, these definately are old stock.
iiz, you are right, the Hanwei Dao probably runs equally hard (50-ish) making neither better. Although 5160 and 65Mn have chromium and silicon added, this might make these two perform slightly better in edge retention at the same hardness - how much is anyones guess. I have just seen a review of a Kingston Arms sword where it is said the edge retention is better than 1060 and Kingston also seems to run as soft as Hanwei.
I have found the Kukuris rounded handle turns a bit when I get resistance from my target, like a glancing blow on a hard branch, but it's fantastic over all. There are 4 CS Kuks in all: The 33cm bladed normal without guard, the 33cm Plus with guard, the Royal which has a 40cm blade and the Magnum with a 44cm blade but a thinner 2mm blade. I am not so sure about the 2mm stock with the Kukuri shape, it feels a bit too flimsy for me. The waist makes it more bendy than a latin style machete of the same dimensions, for thin brush though a very fast blade.
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