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Post by Eric Bergeron on Apr 19, 2023 17:05:36 GMT
So where would I look if I'm in the market for a high end machete? I'm not familiar with this market so don't want to get a mlo(machete like object) so hoping someone can point in a place to look and see what kinds are out there.
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Post by mrbadexample on Apr 19, 2023 18:38:30 GMT
You might want to talk to the folks at Baryonyx -https://www.baryonyxknife.com/
They stock some quality stuff and can help guide you to the right tool for the uses you have in mind.
Also, older Collins Tool machetes are pretty nice. They can be costly, but it’s worth a look on eBay.
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Post by treeslicer on Apr 19, 2023 18:44:29 GMT
So where would I look if I'm in the market for a high end machete? I'm not familiar with this market so don't want to get a mlo(machete like object) so hoping someone can point in a place to look and see what kinds are out there. IMHO, based on experience, do an eBay search on "Philippine bolo". The ones you want for chopping bush, instead of ethnographic collecting, are the ones from Luzon that look like oversized Bowie knives. These used to sell for next-to-nothing in the vicinity of the US bases at Clark and Subic, and are handmade from truck springs, with DH edges and peened tangs going all the way through buffalo-horn grips. They are thick at the hilt, and distally tapered. They originally came with well-made leather sheaths. The design is based on a Spanish army Modelo 1843 sword pattern. www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=philippines+bolo&_sop=12&mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=5337590774&customid=&toolid=10001 .
Unlike factory-produced through-hardened plate-steel machetes, they don't get metal fatigue in the middle and break after heavy use. Very hard beasts to kill.
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Apr 19, 2023 19:51:47 GMT
IMHO "machete" and "high end" is a contradicton. What exactly do you want from a high end machete? Nicer grip, better steel, better heat treatment, different blade styles, distal taper? Something more weaponesque or a more durable tool? For me "high end machete" is another term for "sword".
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Post by Eric Bergeron on Apr 19, 2023 20:22:22 GMT
haha yes I should of been a little more clearer, when I put high end I figured there was two categories like swords are, you got low end steel which is very usable but won't break the bank and can replace easier, then you have the "good" steel better heat treatment, will take a lot of "abuse" before you have to replace. I guess a good balance between a weapon and durable tool.
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Post by howler on Apr 19, 2023 20:25:01 GMT
Machete is a broad spectrum of blades. I'm guessing you are interested in combat/utility area, so maybe browse TFW company website for ideas.
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Post by Eric Bergeron on Apr 19, 2023 20:34:02 GMT
also should say I am looking for the classic 18" machete look as well. Like the imcasa one from the barony site.
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Apr 19, 2023 20:36:37 GMT
I'd take a look on Condor and Cold Steel then. Broad offerings and you can tell us: "I like this of them but not that of those".
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Apr 19, 2023 21:01:43 GMT
Living in Central America, I am lucky to have an abundance of machetes. Perhaps high end means different things to different people. I take it that you mean a good solid working tool. The name machete will apply to different types of knives depending on the country. Don't forget parangs in your search. For Latin style, my favourite is Bellota made in Colombia. They have a web site but don’t seem to do much online dealing and you may have a problem obtaining one. Tramontina out of Brazil has a good following, and reputation. Ontario makes a good one. The military gave me an acquaintance with them on several occasions. Both are good solid working tools and there are several sources in the US that sell them. CS and Condor will both give you a good machete. But generally speaking, Condor’s blades are thicker than I prefer. Gabe Humphries has many videos on YouTube of various machetes. One comparing the Tramontina to Ontario is below.
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Post by howler on Apr 20, 2023 16:49:57 GMT
I've often mentioned Marbles machete (made in El Salvador) before, as you get a superior convex grind & nylon sheath (with sharpening stone) included with the blade which is often coated in orange protective material. I like the Bolo and standard Latin designs.
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alinkinthechain
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Post by alinkinthechain on Oct 23, 2023 20:10:12 GMT
If you want a high end machete, the El Chete by Tops Knives is apparently one of the best. My personal 2 favorite machetes are, however, the 18" Tramontina (if you go to Lowe's you are likely to find it with a sheath) and the Ontario Knife Company Old Hickory 14" butcher knife. Both take a keen edge, are made out of hardened steel, and are workhorses. At under 25 USD, they may be the single highest performance:price ratio I have ever seen.
Cons are that both come without sheaths (again you can go to Lowe's and they sell em with sheaths, a marbles sheath will fit the Old Hickory), the Tramontina is "unfinished" so the scales are a little boxy and the tip is unsharpened, and because they're carbon steel, they're prone to rusting (tramontina has a clear finish to prevent this). A little work goes a long way, so if you're crafty, you can turn them into high end tools that will last multiple lifetimes. Baryonyx Knife Co. sells them, and they provide finishing services to deal with most of these issues.
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Post by Jayhawk on Oct 24, 2023 14:45:48 GMT
So where would I look if I'm in the market for a high end machete? I'm not familiar with this market so don't want to get a mlo(machete like object) so hoping someone can point in a place to look and see what kinds are out there. "IMHO, based on experience, do an eBay search on "Philippine bolo". The ones you want for chopping bush, instead of ethnographic collecting, are the ones from Luzon that look like oversized Bowie knives. These used to sell for next-to-nothing in the vicinity of the US bases at Clark and Subic, and are handmade from truck springs, with DH edges and peened tangs going all the way through buffalo-horn grips. They are thick at the hilt, and distally tapered. They originally came with well-made leather sheaths. The design is based on a Spanish army Modelo 1843 sword pattern. www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=philippines+bolo&_sop=12&mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=5337590774&customid=&toolid=10001 .
Unlike factory-produced through-hardened plate-steel machetes, they don't get metal fatigue in the middle and break after heavy use. Very hard beasts to kill. "
I have one of these that my uncle brought back after training in the Philippines before flying as a marine in Vietnam. He used it to chop brush and wood while camping, and I've similarly abused it ever since. Mine has a wood handle, though, but otherwise it's a workhorse of a bolo.
Eric
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Post by izzy on Nov 19, 2023 7:55:36 GMT
So where would I look if I'm in the market for a high end machete? I'm not familiar with this market so don't want to get a mlo(machete like object) so hoping someone can point in a place to look and see what kinds are out there. IMHO, based on experience, do an eBay search on "Philippine bolo". The ones you want for chopping bush, instead of ethnographic collecting, are the ones from Luzon that look like oversized Bowie knives. These used to sell for next-to-nothing in the vicinity of the US bases at Clark and Subic, and are handmade from truck springs, with DH edges and peened tangs going all the way through buffalo-horn grips. They are thick at the hilt, and distally tapered. They originally came with well-made leather sheaths. The design is based on a Spanish army Modelo 1843 sword pattern. www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=philippines+bolo&_sop=12&mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=5337590774&customid=&toolid=10001 .
Unlike factory-produced through-hardened plate-steel machetes, they don't get metal fatigue in the middle and break after heavy use. Very hard beasts to kill.
Thank you for the recommendation. I have seen posts that you have made about DH Bolo's in terms of more modern export production that is TH. I did a duckduckgo search on this and came up with some interesting info:
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Post by izzy on Nov 19, 2023 9:16:03 GMT
Living in Central America, I am lucky to have an abundance of machetes. Perhaps high end means different things to different people. I take it that you mean a good solid working tool. The name machete will apply to different types of knives depending on the country. Don't forget parangs in your search. For Latin style, my favourite is Bellota made in Colombia. They have a web site but don’t seem to do much online dealing and you may have a problem obtaining one. Tramontina out of Brazil has a good following, and reputation. Ontario makes a good one. The military gave me an acquaintance with them on several occasions. Both are good solid working tools and there are several sources in the US that sell them. CS and Condor will both give you a good machete. But generally speaking, Condor’s blades are thicker than I prefer. Gabe Humphries has many videos on YouTube of various machetes. One comparing the Tramontina to Ontario is below.
I also found the Condor "El Salvador" machete was too thick, light brush tends to let brush bounce off the blade, especially hanging brush ( like thorny vines) rather than cut.
Imacasa ( the parent company of Condor) makes a cruder but more usable thinner machete.
I did some measurements on a few Condor Machetes, and one Imacasa...do keep in mind these were bought quite a while ago and dimensions can change with time:
Condor "El Salvador" 18" blade, about 3mm thick the length of the spine, no distal taper, convex edge grind. As stated, the combination of thickness ans convex edge is not the best for vines and light brush. It also feels "heavy" in the hand and leads to fatigue.
Condor "Outback" 20" blade, 420HC. Measured 2.3mm at tip area, 2.19mm near the handle ( slight reverse taper), flat grind edge, cuts like a champ. Discontinued model.
Imacasa 18" machete 1.76mm at base by handle, to 1.43 closer to the tip, has some distal taper, very crude "flat" edge needed a file to sharpen to a usable edge.
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mrstabby
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Post by mrstabby on Nov 19, 2023 10:04:58 GMT
It's probably less about thickness and more about weight and balance, for small brances you need a lot of speed to cut through. My Windlass D-Guard Bowie is thicker and has less acute of an edge angle than the Cold Steel Jungle machete, but I can swing the D-Guard much faster and therefore it cuts small brances much better. If your swing is slow, the branch has time to move out of the way. For thick branches more mass is better (oversimplified of course, it's more complicated).
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Post by izzy on Nov 19, 2023 11:26:23 GMT
It's probably less about thickness and more about weight and balance, for small brances you need a lot of speed to cut through. My Windlass D-Guard Bowie is thicker and has less acute of an edge angle than the Cold Steel Jungle machete, but I can swing the D-Guard much faster and therefore it cuts small brances much better. If your swing is slow, the branch has time to move out of the way. For thick branches more mass is better (oversimplified of course, it's more complicated). My favorite for all around use was actually a much smaller machete, an older Tramontina 14" Bolo machete with a regular flat edge. The older ones were thicker ( around 2.5mm , sorry cant measure it right now), and sliced through thin brush just fine. Now I can't say if my swings were "slow" with the Condor "El Salvador", usually usage was in the heat of Florida on my land, and it's quite possible I was tired and sweaty. Still, even when tired, I don't remember the same problems with the older Tramontina. With the Bolo style and an acute edge you can cut finer brush, but still hack down a young tree if you want/ need to. ( use like a hatchet)..
I agree balance is an issue, I do think there are other issues as well, such as the angle of the convex grind, the Condor "El Salvador" has an extreme convex that just does not "bite" into brush ( at least on my specimen), also worth considering the tapering V grind on the D Guard Bowie. Looking up the stats on the Windlass D Guard, it has a much more acute edge ( despite the thicker spine) than my Model of Condor...so Heck Yah it should slice/ cut better.
When dealing with Machetes we don't usually get those nice V grinds, usually its just flats for the sides and often edge not so refined, so when it's "too thick" for that kind of crude style of tool it can cause issues, especially with the acute convex grind on the "El Salvador". ( sorry to repeat myself) But this is why most Machetes for the Latin /South American Market are on the thin side ( under 3mm, often under 2mm) except certain models, and with some makers sadly only in the past.
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Now in terms of the OP Tramontina even when thicker back then, was not considered a "high end machete", edges run pretty soft, but they did the trick. I have 2 Bolo's from them, but they keep thinning them out ( making it cheaper) to the point where the newest Bolo models are 1.25mm thick...( neither of mine are that thin, they were bought maybe 5 years apart sometime between 2005 and 2011). I can't compare to Cold Steel, as I never bought a CS machete. ( something about being disappointed with a "Aus-8" Voyager folder with the soft gummy blade, (serrations that bent) turned me off to CS back in the 90's). Besides back then European knife blades were a good deal ( strong Dollar), and many were good quality so that is what I was buying.
Maybe in terms of a "Higher quality" machete we should be looking at the 18" D-Gaurd by Windlass?
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mrstabby
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Post by mrstabby on Nov 19, 2023 11:55:17 GMT
The D-Guard has a 17°/side edge, the CS Jungle (at least mine) is close to 14°/side so the CS actually has the more acute edge geometry for slicing, but it does not perform as well on thin branches (you can feel the branch bending out of the way but the CS cuts paper more easily). The Condors edge looks pretty similar to the CS. They are also similar in weight, but the Condor has a further out PoB according to KoA, which would mean it is even harder to move than the CS Jungle. EDIT: but the Condor is also longer, so they are probably quite similar in the end On the other hand with thicker brances the CS does dig in deeper, not that the D-Guard is a slouch at all.
I would not say the D-Guard is really a machete alternative. The blade literally has 0 flex, and as far as I understand it a machte needs to be flexible to absorb impact energy.
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Post by izzy on Nov 19, 2023 13:33:09 GMT
The D-Guard has a 17°/side edge, the CS Jungle (at least mine) is close to 14°/side so the CS actually has the more acute edge geometry for slicing, but it does not perform as well on thin branches (you can feel the branch bending out of the way but the CS cuts paper more easily). The Condors edge looks pretty similar to the CS. They are also similar in weight, but the Condor has a further out PoB according to KoA, which would mean it is even harder to move than the CS Jungle. EDIT: but the Condor is also longer, so they are probably quite similar in the end On the other hand with thicker brances the CS does dig in deeper, not that the D-Guard is a slouch at all.
I would not say the D-Guard is really a machete alternative. The blade literally has 0 flex, and as far as I understand it a machte needs to be flexible to absorb impact energy.
I'm not sure a machete needs to flex, so much as it needs to be able to absorb shock. This can also be done with a stiff blade using DH as Treeslicer has pointed out. Or it can be done with a thin blade at a spring temper. Even a thick TH blade, well done, will put up with a lot of abuse, though it may snap one day. I put a question mark by the D-Gaurd, for a few reasons, the most important is exactly what I think you are concerned about, it's heat treat and temper, despite claims by windlass that's it's just wonderful for cutting saplings and digging trenches (?):
Since I don't own it, I would defer to owners like you to give an honest opinion. I also find it no surprise that the D-Gaurd with a better V grind cuts better on thin brush than something with an more acute edge, but simple flats, and no surprise that the CS would dig deeper into thicker wood ( being thinner overall).
The model of Jungle Machete from Cold Steel you have but it must be shorter than this(?) and not have the "belly" in the blade( ), because even at 18" with that belly in the current model it will behave differently than the Condor regardless of thickness and POB:
The newer production "El Salvador" Condor's also claim 2.8mm ( My OLDER "El Salvador" Condor is Actually between 3mm and 3.1 mm, not a huge diff., Condor is Notorious for non-spec, often under the claimed thickness, but it's all over the board sometimes). I don't think the CS has a convex grind. I could take off the convex grind and maybe the "El Slavador" will become a decent machete in my eyes, but so far I have not bothered as I have many more to use and abuse that work better.
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mrstabby
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Post by mrstabby on Nov 19, 2023 13:56:00 GMT
The CS is very convex, not a flat V. It is a 16" blade with a PoB 5", that's exactly the one.
The Problem for the D-Guard is also the tang, it is quite thin and I have seen a few Windlass swords break at the tang when you try to hack at wood with them.
I doubt that changeing it from convex to flat will make it much better unless it has a really heavy curve in it or you change the angle as well.
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Post by izzy on Nov 19, 2023 14:05:08 GMT
The CS is very convex, not a flat V. The Problem for the D-Guard is also the tang, it is quite thin and I have seen a few Windlass swords break at the tang when you try to hack at wood with them. Thank you for clearing that up. I edited my post because ( not owning it) I found the CS has a more pronounced "belly" to the blade ( it seems the longer the CS machete is the bigger the belly)...a pronounced belly in a blade can make a difference. ( different blade shape).
Also thank you for the information on the Windlass, which is really a shame about their swords, I hope it does not translate to your D-Guard, but you have solid reason for concern.
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