The Shashka

Nice thread, I've always found these interesting. Seem to fetch a pretty penny when I've seen them for sale.

Thanks for the load of info and of course your post.
The PDF is precious. That one went into the files!
It was quite the trip to get this sword sorted out, but thus far a very worthwhile learning experience.
Just two days ago, or was it yesterday? I was shouting ,, Glass that entire frigging lot'' at poor Jack, who didn't do nuffing.
It was my response to one of the so called ,,experts'', who, in the most arrogant, vitriolic and downright abusive way, tried to dismiss my more than 35 year background in archaeology, which came in handy while determinating what was going on with the fittings, especially the skin on the (most probably) Narwal ivory, with the stunningly idiotic frase: What kind of ivory it is and the patination thereof does not matter in the least, blah, blah, blah. And I may say, this was not the first time situations like this occured. Had we, in the 1980's to begin 90's displayed this same attitude, we would never have detected the start of what later on was to become a virtual river of ,,2000 year old'' ,,Roman'' gem ringstones, originating in Bulgaria, created with the help of the , back then, cool new artisan tool, the dentist drill. Discussion and research was what saved many unsuspecting collectors a lot of heartburn, myself included. So, in short, if discussion and research are discouraged by the attitude of (self appointed) ,,experts'' this is not doing a great service to the sword community.
That is why I am greatly relieved to find that other people joined in the discussion of the above Shashka in a more gentlemanly fashion and helped Jack with their research in a most constructive way. Kudo's.

Amen.

May I ask where we can find this seemingly pleasant discussion with those experts?

Oh, yeah, the Hanwei is by no means an accurate replica. What is is, though, is a decent, budget-level, single-handed cavalry saber, inspired by military shashka. My Kizlyar is a better overall sword, though, and a much better shashka, though there's still room for improvement.

I thought I had a side-by-side photo of the two, but I can't seem to find it.

Thank you, will check it out

Some of mine are budget-level genuine antiques (>100yoa), some are brand new. None are as prestigious as your Shashka. Still, I like each of mine for what it is.

I would admittedly be quite unhappy if one of my antiques turned out to be a modern replica, or otherwise just not what it was purported to be. So I sympathize with your disappointment.

Whatever you ultimately learn, you will still have a very beautiful piece.

yes the hanwei stuff is just weird .. kizlyar CAN make a good shashka.. but their cheaper stianless steel swords are made for just that.. the consumer market for decoraitons.. yes the blade is hard and sharp and tapered well ect.. .. their brass and silver casting is very high quality and so is their silver and plating.. but these are stianless steel weapons.. the kindjal blades for example .. the stainless ones are good but theyer stainless and the fittings are stamped and the handles stained.. ect.. the higher end damascus stuff is very good quality but it is also not cheap ..(although cheaper than swords from  some "western" maker.. for the price.. and much superior in quality.. youd be getting ivory, damascus stele and silver for a somethign for the price of a normal carbons teel custom sword from the us or uk ect .)

then again they made lord of the rings reproductions for russian collectors out of damascus steel and with mamouth ivory handles and stuff.. so  they CAN make anything you want.. if they want to.. theyer a big company with 100s  of employees making about 1000 knives a day... some hand workers are very skilled.. but their main market for shashkas is  not cossack paramilitary groups.. .. there is much better  carbon steel shushkas made for cutting on the russian market that sell for the good prices.. kizlyars lost wax casting is very good though..  "Nazarov & kaliber" is a producer of very good  carbon steel russian  and european military swords  designed for cutting.. and also triaditional caucascian swords that is very well priced and very high quality. with kizlyar you would have to make a custom order for a carbon steel blade ect.. 

hi yes.
about the mark... it looks wrong.. hard ot explain but for the wear of the blade.. (which its self is not an old pattenr of blade) the markign appears wrong.  and the blade appears to have be rubbed down aggressively to remove ruse.. but you cna see this was doen when the blade wa snot attached to the handle , as you cna see there is no rust betwen the hilt and the blade..  a common obvois sign the handle is added to it recently. 

the blade is a russian or german pattern. but the ricasso appears to be ground off  and the edge runs all the way up to the hilt which is a common habit in the caucasus in some shashak. fakers woudlnt bother to replicate this.. no need  theyed just make a traditional blade shape.  so it make sme think yes the blade is  probably real. 

the handle is very recently made probably from bits of old ivoiry. an old cracked peice of ivory has little value.. i have many bits of broken old ivory and broken or split handles  in my posession. using fake ivor has no value to the faker.. 
if you are more familiar with this fake sword market you will know the fakers also make reglar new swords to sell.. they have plenty of ivory, silver ect. and rehilt old blaces repolish ect them and make new sheaths.. .. and  using "fake ivory" would be an issue.. somebody may not know all the aspects that woudl make it a fake.. but they sure want ivory on them and the "old" look is the selling point  and they can see when its not ivory,

youll probably find the inlayed parts are mammouth ivory and the handle is maybe walrus .. 
the handle is a part of old ivory from something.. maybe even a part of an oroginal swords handle , but not this one..  the silver and bands and sheath are very  new. 
i can  seen in the pictures the the fititngs have quite large gaps in them  where they fit to the sheath..  its hard to describe but i can see in your photos the clear transition it looks very off. .. the leather.. the sliver ect is all either in marked or is  intentionally aged.. no tarnish no grit under any of the metal..  the  style of decoraiton is also modern.. its a style that appeared in the soviet period. 

forgetting the obvious like style and such... if this was a real antique the silver will be worn and rounded, there will be wax, grit polish ect in the crevices.. the ivory inlays will be aged and polished.. ect .  take a look at old swords.. worn and used in the caucasus they have much wear on them.. a silver handled sword liek this all the highpoints will be worn and all the low points will be tarnished and coated with a surface coating of oils.. wax.. fine grit. 
 "Even stranger if it were fake, it came from the collection of A.D.L. which had about 20 real 19th century shashka's in it when it came up to auction. Why would a collector with so many originals have a fake in it?" .. it is an auction its function is to generate money. 

there is several markets  in Tibilisi which are full of such swords , just as yours.. mixed in with real old swords too. there is some nice walkthroughs on youtube  where you can spot,, real, fake and frankenswords all laying togeather.. 

I am trying to assist you about a pruchase you have made that you wish opinions on. if you wish to buy fake shashkas you can buy them. you must go to a place where shashka are very common. your shashka is such a sword. if you dont like the informaiton i or any other perosn give you you can ignore it but if i see such a sword sold im obliged to let all know it is a fake