Cleaning Antique Gilded Hilts. Edited.
Feb 26, 2014 12:17:37 GMT
Post by Uhlan on Feb 26, 2014 12:17:37 GMT
Those fire gilded and later on electro plated gild hilts on mainly French sabres are often of a complicated desig, with lots of ornamentation.
Over the years these hilts get cleaned somewhat, hang in dusty, smoky environs above fireplaces and so on. All of the above makes dark, fatty gunk accumulate in the many recesses.
A lot of the gild on the high spots will have been cleaned off and most of the gild remaining will sit under the black gunk.
The surefire way to destroy the gild remaining and the crisp design, is to start buffing with Mothers or other friction based compounds, or God forbid, steelwool. Spending hours picking the dirt out with a needle and 20x magnifier is not something most of us have the patience for or the time to do. Now what?
I experimented with ammonia and household vinigar and such, but these worked to slow and are liquids, so run off, mostly to places you do not want them to go, like into the bone grip.
I found two methods that do work and are of a pasty nature, so you can put them where you want, without run off.
1. Baking soda paste. Slow, takes hours but works. Make paste with water, apply with small brush.
2. My favourite: Household soda. Works in a shorter timeframe, stays put. When finished, clean with moist soapy rag and small brush, preferbly with textile washing detergent and take the blowdryer to the hilt, low heat and just to wind dry the moisture out of the deeper aereas.
I used HH soda on the very dirty backstrap of a saber like the one above and it works beautifully.
All the remaining gild will stay in place and a very light buffing with a dry soft cloth and some toothpaste will make the exposed bronze a little more bright. Clean as per above.
The gild on the sabers was of the satin kind, never to be bright and shiny like jewellery. One of the quirks of firegilding. Later electro plating emulated the antique mercury finish.
The HH soda trick I loaned from my plating work. Soda bath to clean, viniger bath to pickle.
Cheers.
Edit: For good meassure I did the same on a dark, almost black, metal scabbard.
Though much of the black, so called stable rust, came off after a night under the soda, I still had to go at it with the wire brush to get the red rust under the black off and there was lots of it.The scabbard is shiny again and though pitted, it is rust free, black or red. Maybe going at it with the wirebrush in the first place would save a lot of time, but I had to try. For blade stains the soda could work as it can be applyed localy and does not, as far as I can tell, discolour the steel, nor etch it.
I will.try this out on my French Inf. short sword. There is still some black on the blade near the guard, right where the marks are, so sanding is out. The makers marks on the above mentioned scabbard came out beautifully.
Also I cleaned the hilt of the German Artillery saber. I thought the gild left was minimal, since it looked brown like patinated bronze. After the soda treatment I was amazed to find much of the gild intact, about 80%.
Cheers, Ulahn.
Cheers, Ulahn.
Edit 2:
Yesterday I went at the French Infantry Glave, that nice little short sword in the Classical style.
Did the soda on the hard as nails black just under the guard and in the Chatellerauld marks and leftit there for the night.
After the soda treatment I removed the exposed red rust with a small bronze wire brush and while doing so, I wondered why it seems that the black almost always seems to develop right there, on many antiques.
Obviously it is a tricky spot. People tend to wipe gunk into it while wiping the blade.
The little leather blade cravat does not help either. Gunk gets under it.
But this is only part of the problem.
The main reason, I think, is that in the case of the Glave and other assorted French swords and sabres the hilt is made of bronze. This is the main reason deplorable stuff happens right on the border, under the guard where bronze meets Iron/steel.
In the periodic table bronze is high up right under silver, so a good, stable material.
Iron/steel in very much lower, in the region of lead and zinc, unstable crap that is.
It is common knowledge in archaeological circles that whenever a grave is found containing bronze objects, said objects will come out in good condition for the most part. Of course there are variations due to acids, water and other influences, but this a sort of rule. Bronze goes a long way.
When graves are found from the later bronze age, were iron objects may be found mixed with bronze, most bronze will be intact still, but the iron wil be in a very much worse state. This is because of chemical processes helped along with very small electrical currents in the earth and between objects of metal, for the most part.
The same process is in effect while cleaning black spots with aluminium foil.Books have been written about this, but I will try to keep in short. Main rule to take away is:
Whenever bronze meets iron, iron will deteriorate faster than otherwise would be the case and the place of high impact is right where cleaning is difficult: right under the guard and on the blade, period.
What to do about it:
Well, while writing this my first thought is for buyers of new replica bronze hilted sabres to clean and inject some isolator, like thin epoxy or a good though lacquer in there, or stuff some good hard grease between blade and guard. Oil will leak out again over time.
With the Glave I had lots of WD40 in there and let it soak for a night. Does not help. While cleaning after the soda treatment I saw lots of red in the space between blade and bronze guard, so I stuffed it full of wax for now.
For the antiques I would suggest the same. Oil does not cut it. Waxing the blade is nice but as stated before, the rot happens elsewhere. So in the end injecting epoxy or lacquer might help.
What to make of all this Sunday doom and gloom? Nothing much, other then being aware of the process and the place it will effect the most. Stuff is made, it's here, than it's gone. I do not expect Mr. Dave Kelly will go berserk on his many bronze hilted sabres with syringes or whatever, although it sure would be great fun to watch.
:mrgreen:
Cheers, Ulahn.
Over the years these hilts get cleaned somewhat, hang in dusty, smoky environs above fireplaces and so on. All of the above makes dark, fatty gunk accumulate in the many recesses.
A lot of the gild on the high spots will have been cleaned off and most of the gild remaining will sit under the black gunk.
The surefire way to destroy the gild remaining and the crisp design, is to start buffing with Mothers or other friction based compounds, or God forbid, steelwool. Spending hours picking the dirt out with a needle and 20x magnifier is not something most of us have the patience for or the time to do. Now what?
I experimented with ammonia and household vinigar and such, but these worked to slow and are liquids, so run off, mostly to places you do not want them to go, like into the bone grip.
I found two methods that do work and are of a pasty nature, so you can put them where you want, without run off.
1. Baking soda paste. Slow, takes hours but works. Make paste with water, apply with small brush.
2. My favourite: Household soda. Works in a shorter timeframe, stays put. When finished, clean with moist soapy rag and small brush, preferbly with textile washing detergent and take the blowdryer to the hilt, low heat and just to wind dry the moisture out of the deeper aereas.
I used HH soda on the very dirty backstrap of a saber like the one above and it works beautifully.
All the remaining gild will stay in place and a very light buffing with a dry soft cloth and some toothpaste will make the exposed bronze a little more bright. Clean as per above.
The gild on the sabers was of the satin kind, never to be bright and shiny like jewellery. One of the quirks of firegilding. Later electro plating emulated the antique mercury finish.
The HH soda trick I loaned from my plating work. Soda bath to clean, viniger bath to pickle.
Cheers.
Edit: For good meassure I did the same on a dark, almost black, metal scabbard.
Though much of the black, so called stable rust, came off after a night under the soda, I still had to go at it with the wire brush to get the red rust under the black off and there was lots of it.The scabbard is shiny again and though pitted, it is rust free, black or red. Maybe going at it with the wirebrush in the first place would save a lot of time, but I had to try. For blade stains the soda could work as it can be applyed localy and does not, as far as I can tell, discolour the steel, nor etch it.
I will.try this out on my French Inf. short sword. There is still some black on the blade near the guard, right where the marks are, so sanding is out. The makers marks on the above mentioned scabbard came out beautifully.
Also I cleaned the hilt of the German Artillery saber. I thought the gild left was minimal, since it looked brown like patinated bronze. After the soda treatment I was amazed to find much of the gild intact, about 80%.
Cheers, Ulahn.
Cheers, Ulahn.
Edit 2:
Yesterday I went at the French Infantry Glave, that nice little short sword in the Classical style.
Did the soda on the hard as nails black just under the guard and in the Chatellerauld marks and leftit there for the night.
After the soda treatment I removed the exposed red rust with a small bronze wire brush and while doing so, I wondered why it seems that the black almost always seems to develop right there, on many antiques.
Obviously it is a tricky spot. People tend to wipe gunk into it while wiping the blade.
The little leather blade cravat does not help either. Gunk gets under it.
But this is only part of the problem.
The main reason, I think, is that in the case of the Glave and other assorted French swords and sabres the hilt is made of bronze. This is the main reason deplorable stuff happens right on the border, under the guard where bronze meets Iron/steel.
In the periodic table bronze is high up right under silver, so a good, stable material.
Iron/steel in very much lower, in the region of lead and zinc, unstable crap that is.
It is common knowledge in archaeological circles that whenever a grave is found containing bronze objects, said objects will come out in good condition for the most part. Of course there are variations due to acids, water and other influences, but this a sort of rule. Bronze goes a long way.
When graves are found from the later bronze age, were iron objects may be found mixed with bronze, most bronze will be intact still, but the iron wil be in a very much worse state. This is because of chemical processes helped along with very small electrical currents in the earth and between objects of metal, for the most part.
The same process is in effect while cleaning black spots with aluminium foil.Books have been written about this, but I will try to keep in short. Main rule to take away is:
Whenever bronze meets iron, iron will deteriorate faster than otherwise would be the case and the place of high impact is right where cleaning is difficult: right under the guard and on the blade, period.
What to do about it:
Well, while writing this my first thought is for buyers of new replica bronze hilted sabres to clean and inject some isolator, like thin epoxy or a good though lacquer in there, or stuff some good hard grease between blade and guard. Oil will leak out again over time.
With the Glave I had lots of WD40 in there and let it soak for a night. Does not help. While cleaning after the soda treatment I saw lots of red in the space between blade and bronze guard, so I stuffed it full of wax for now.
For the antiques I would suggest the same. Oil does not cut it. Waxing the blade is nice but as stated before, the rot happens elsewhere. So in the end injecting epoxy or lacquer might help.
What to make of all this Sunday doom and gloom? Nothing much, other then being aware of the process and the place it will effect the most. Stuff is made, it's here, than it's gone. I do not expect Mr. Dave Kelly will go berserk on his many bronze hilted sabres with syringes or whatever, although it sure would be great fun to watch.
:mrgreen:
Cheers, Ulahn.