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Post by munk on Feb 4, 2016 15:36:35 GMT
Even the smaller 20 gauge shotgun would be a good choice, plus it's just more pleasant to shoot.
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Post by brotherbanzai on Feb 4, 2016 21:43:22 GMT
There are some things I consider very important with regards to gun ownership, opinions may vary.
If you are getting a firearm for home protection, practice with it a lot. Be comfortable with it and familiar with the controls and how to deal with any typical malfunctions. If you aren’t going to be shooting a lot, then I would highly recommend not getting a gun for home protection. A good dog is a better security system and intruder deterrent anyway.
If you are going to be practicing a lot, get a 9mm because the ammo is cheap compared to all other calibers except .22. Good quality defensive 9mm ammo is going to be so close in effectiveness to larger calibers that it isn’t worth the difference in capacity.
Statistically, if a shoot out ever happens, you’re going to miss a lot more than you are going to hit (I think police generally hit about 1 out of 6 or 7 shots fired if I remember correctly). To me, that means capacity is very important, as is ease of quickly reloading. For that reason I would go with an autoloader over a revolver. 15 or more rounds compared to 6 or 7 give you much better odds, as does the ease of changing out a magazine vs reloading a revolver.
Racking the slide is not difficult once you are used to it, like any new movement your muscles aren’t used to. A larger frame pistol will generally have an easier to rack slide. Push with your main hand rather than just pulling with the support hand, that seems to be the stumbling block a lot of new users run into.
Get something with a proven track record for reliability – Glock 19, H&K VP9, S&W M&P, Springfield XD, Sig 226…
If you have young children or have occasion to have other people’s children over to your house, that becomes another thing to consider, as the firearm must be kept somewhere safe.
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ghost
Member
Posts: 1,324
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Post by ghost on Feb 5, 2016 2:45:46 GMT
Any gun that you eventually come to love to shoot. Need to like it enough to dry fire, handle and practice with it often; I can't speak for others, but the sidearm I am most practiced with is my 8th-11th handgun? I would encourage you to rent 5-6 interesting ones at the range and take your time choosing.
Ladies shoot just as good as the gents - no such thing as a lady's gun...aside from some of Sean's recent ones. My 94 lb friend picked out a full size 1911 as her first handgun. she also handled my glock 29 (well all my handguns actually) beautifully.
Recoil-wise the beretta 92fs/m9 and sig 226s are very manageable with their weight. 18 rd mags are a plus. My ex settled on a glock 19 (120lbs).
A medium plus dog seems to be the best home defense imo and great company to boot. As BB said, it is important to keep the firearm in a safe place. However, this will severely limit how quickly you access it. Biometric safes are still on the pricey side; I think these are the safest option with how precocious kids are.
Rifles have some drawbacks; Does your house have tight corners and halls? will you need a free hand to open doors or windows to escape? hold the child? call 911?
GL on choosing (I always go for the pretty ones and worry about the rest later)
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Feb 5, 2016 12:26:17 GMT
20-gauge semiautomatic shotgun 20-gauge buckshot loads are filled with 20 pellets of No. 3 buckshot. Each shot pellet is a .25-caliber ball weighing 23.4 grains - Mossberg SA-20 Tactical is one option -
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Post by Cosmoline on Feb 5, 2016 22:18:12 GMT
Not to disagree with plainsman, but a pistol is always going to be less accurate and powerful then a rifle or shotgun. The only thing you want a pistol for is to take it places you couldn't take a rifle or shotgun - such as concealed carrying. I agree wholeheartedly. Too often men seem to think a small handgun is the best choice for a woman. Small handguns are incredibly difficult to master, and are a bad choice for anything but CCW. I've had over fifty handguns over the years and fired tens of thousands of rounds from the largest to the smallest. Personally I would use a spear over a handgun for close range personal defense. I have that little faith in them. I would suggest a good, sensible rifle or shotgun (NOT PGO!!!) for home defense. A Winchester '94 in .30-30 is a fine choice. Or one of the CZ mini mausers. An AR-15 platform is also an excellent choice. With high velocity rifle rounds, you can adjust the bullet type to control for penetration and performance. With low velocity handguns--not so much. A SP from a .223 will pretty much detonate, while a SP from a .357 may just open up a bit and keep right on rolling. I've seen .357 slugs penetrate whole buildings, while high velocity home defense rifle rounds perform just how they're supposed to. Also, you can easily mount a light on the long guns so you'll know your target. Too many people have ended up shooting a friend or neighbor in the shadows. Forget the ninjas who claim you shouldn't use a tactical light. It is your OBLIGATION to be SURE of your target and what's behind it!! For concealed carry I'd suggest trying a wide array, getting training and practicing all the time. To get good and stay good with the short guns is NOT easy.
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Post by Alexander on Feb 6, 2016 4:05:39 GMT
"Personally I would use a spear over a handgun for close range personal defense. I have that little faith in them."
Lets just hope the intruder feels the same way.
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Post by Adventurer'sBlade on Feb 6, 2016 6:14:47 GMT
"Personally I would use a spear over a handgun for close range personal defense. I have that little faith in them." Lets just hope the intruder feels the same way. I'd rather have a spear against a drug-fueled berserker who feels no pain and wants to tear my face off. I'd rather have a pistol against a rational, skittish thief. Too bad we don't get to plan those things. Edit: the solution just came to me. Mosin with a bayonet.
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Post by L Driggers (fallen) on Feb 6, 2016 6:40:06 GMT
I will tell you what my wife carrys daily and what she keep by the bed at night. Daily she carrys a Glock 19, in the house she has a Ruger Speed Six 2 3/4in DA revolver and a Remington model 1100 12ga 20in barrel semi automatic shotgun. She has no problem handling a 12ga shotgun, bet she can out shoot most on you with any type of firearm.
I will say as I always do get a medium frame double action 4in barrel 38/357 revolver. Learm to use it well. By the way most police offiers are really bad shots, I know see them shoot all the time. Most really don't know much about firearms at all.
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Post by Alexander on Feb 6, 2016 8:47:16 GMT
I will say as I always do get a medium frame double action 4in barrel 38/357 revolver. Learm to use it well. By the way most police offiers are really bad shots, I know see them shoot all the time. Most really don't know much about firearms at all. Very true, In know a number of officers and they really only shoot when qualification come up.
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Post by Adventurer'sBlade on Feb 6, 2016 10:38:57 GMT
Some cops are gun enthusiasts, some aren't. There are a lot of skills in policing, and shooting is but one to practice. Albeit a very important one if you ever need it. I think a higher percentage of police practice with their weapons regularly than the public at large, but if you shoot weekly you're probably ahead of most cops.
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Post by munk on Feb 6, 2016 16:04:37 GMT
Capacity has been mentioned a few times, but is a very important factor to consider. Even those who are considered an excellent shot at the range may have little to no experience shooting at moving targets, or shooting while moving themselves, or shooting from around obstructions/at things that are behind obstructions. It's also hard to say how well they'll perform when all of those things are happening simultaneously, perhaps with multiple intruders, and one or more of them may be shooting back at you.
When you consider all theses things, and the extreme likelihood that the majority of your shots will not be on target for any one of those reasons, suddenly the 6 shell capacity in a revolver or shotgun seem insufficiently low. After all, the whole idea is to prepare for a worst case scenario. You aren't really doing that if your are assuming that there will be only one intruder, or that the intruder will be easy to shoot, or that the shots you do land will be incapacitating and not just flesh wounds or glances. When it comes to protecting your life and the lives of those living with you, I suggest not relying on everything to go in your favor in order for your plan to work.
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Post by shogun on Feb 6, 2016 16:58:38 GMT
all you need is a whistle.
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Post by plainsman on Feb 6, 2016 17:19:54 GMT
Lots of varying opinions on this, and that is understandable. For most folks, guns are pretty personal. Really I agree, in one way or another, with just about every comment in this thread, they all have very valid points.
I still say though, if moving toward a lifestyle change that will incorporate firearms into all aspects of your life, small format 9mm Glock pistol is the way to go.
1. Great for concealed carry. 2. Great for keeping in a bio-safe lock box right by the bed, allowing you to grab it and go with very short notice. 3. Easy to maneuver with while doing other things, which will be the case in an emergency. 4. Easy and practical to transport to the range for necessary and frequent practice, which means you will practice more.
Like said above though, everyones situation and needs are different.
FAIRLY un-biased review of Glock 43.
Hickok45 video review of Glock 43.
Full disclosure... I don't work for Glock, nor do I own a 43. I might one of these days though. It's on my priority list.
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Post by L Driggers (fallen) on Feb 7, 2016 6:07:04 GMT
You guy do know I am a police officer, back in the good old days with we all carried revolvers most police shooting average 2.6 rounds. After the switch to semi automatics it when way up. I carry a semi automatic, but I would not feel under gunned with a revolver.
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Post by Richard Arias on Feb 7, 2016 9:05:36 GMT
Thanks guys. You all have given us some things to think about. I hadn't thought of a shot gun. I know chances are I will never have to use the gun for a home invasion, but my husband travels a lot and I'm home with our daughter. I'm taking a course on Home safety and protection at a local gun club here next month. We won't be doing any shooting, but they are going to go over guns. The more information the better. With kids around I would go for a smaller gun that can be in a lock box near your bed with your ammo. Keep in mind where the gun is going to be, and how long it will be there. You have to consider ease of access vs safety and the type of use it will see. Is your home small with tight halls and spaces... if so a shotgun may not be the best choice. Keep in mind what things in your house would give good cover and hide you better. If anyone ever tells you that caliber is more important than accuracy then I would have to question that persons logic. Yes a smaller less powerful round will make it so you have to hit something important to put an attacker down, but I would rather have a double tap you shoot hit home with a .32,.38,9mm ex. Than have you miss with a .45 or Magnum load. With shotguns I often see Jams with beginners from short stroke (not pumping the action with enough force causing a bad feed of the next round) same can be said for auto pistols in some cases. Something to keep in mind is also that if you are not going to be at the range twice a month (at least) to work on your basics and keep your gun a reflexive tool then it can be just as much of a danger to you as an attacker. If you pull a gun and are not forceful and confident in its use there is not much point. I would then look into a security system, better locks, lights in the yards ex. that would make many red flags for anyone who might want to enter and make them think twice. Owning a gun is like health coverage... most of the time you dont use it, until the day your in the ER and glad later you had coverage.
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Post by Striderfly on Feb 8, 2016 21:16:48 GMT
I would go with a lightweight 357-38spcl revolver. Manipulating a slide can be difficult for smaller hands also larger grips that semi autos can have could be a problem. Most revolvers have a wide selection of after market grips to fit most hand sizes. Revolvers are simple, no safeties and a trigger pull that needs a deliberate pull to fire. The only other thing I would recommend is a laser grip. Completely agree with Alexander. This is exactly what I would get for a woman. Laser and all. It has been shown that with a laser women will wait until the dot is on the target before pulling the trigger, even under duress.
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Post by Alexander on Feb 9, 2016 2:09:12 GMT
I would go with a lightweight 357-38spcl revolver. Manipulating a slide can be difficult for smaller hands also larger grips that semi autos can have could be a problem. Most revolvers have a wide selection of after market grips to fit most hand sizes. Revolvers are simple, no safeties and a trigger pull that needs a deliberate pull to fire. The only other thing I would recommend is a laser grip. Completely agree with Alexander. This is exactly what I would get for a woman. Laser and all. It has been shown that with a laser women will wait until the dot is on the target before pulling the trigger, even under duress.
I actually just recommended this to my nephew. Not necessarily a light weight revolver. Only put that in cause after working a number of years at a gun shop women new to shooting were very often surprised by the weight of a gun. They much preferred the lighter weight guns.
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Post by munk on Feb 9, 2016 4:24:45 GMT
I think a laser (or red dot) is a good idea for a self-defense firearm, makes things a bit more intuitive. I don't think 6 rounds is enough, especially for a novice shooter. Some interesting facts to consider (source here): - 2006: NYC police officers intentionally fired 364 bullets in the line of duty, and hit their target 103 times (28.3%)
- 2005: NYC Police officers intentionally fired 472 bullets in the line of duty, and hit their target 82 times (17.4%)
- 2006: LA police officers fired 67 bullets in the line of duty, and hit 27 times (40%)
I think it's safe to say that most novice shooters will fair worse than this. After all, while police officers may not be the best shots in the world, I'm willing to bet that they have more range time than your average civilian gun owner, as well as MUCH more experience dealing with stressful/life endangering situations. But never the less, lets just say you're about on par with these police officers and have a hit ratio of ~24% (903 shots fired, 212 hits) . That means, with a 6 round revolver, odds are you'll only land 1.4 of those shots. The next question is "land 1.4 shots where?" A graze? Center of mass? Arm? Hand? Head? Leg? Foot? Given the level of stress you'd be under, and the likelihood that both you and the intruder will be moving during the altercation, what are the odds that the shots you do make will be less-than-ideal in terms of placement? Forget the possibility of multiple intruders...just dealing with one seems sketchy enough. It might sound silly, but go play a round of paintball to get an idea of how well you'd perform runnin' and gunnin', shooting from cover at someone who is also behind cover, etc. You might be surprised at by how much you suck at doing those things, and how little 6 rounds is to work with. Then multiply your errors by 10 because the real deal will be that much more stressful than a planned paintball game with protective gear.
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Post by L Driggers (fallen) on Feb 9, 2016 4:34:25 GMT
How did we ever get by when we all just carried revolver. Oh I know we didn't just spray and pray. Paint balling will get you into very bad habits since it is all about spray and pray with very large magazines.
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Post by munk on Feb 9, 2016 5:09:20 GMT
I wasn't suggesting people use paintball instead of proper firearms training, but rather, use paintball as fun way of getting a sense of how difficult it actually is to shoot someone while moving, when they too are moving (and may be shooting right back at you).
But, never the less, paintball wasn't really the point I was making. I'm not saying someone is doomed if all they have is a revolver, I'm just saying that I think most people, especially novices, severely over estimate their shooting ability in dynamic and/or stressful situations. Do you disagree?
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