Avery
Member
Manufacturer/Vendor
"It's alright little brother... There are more!!!
Posts: 1,826
|
Post by Avery on Apr 21, 2009 23:32:50 GMT
Ok, first a preface...This is not my sword, I take a bit better care of mine. My best friend and I both bought these bastard iberian swords back around 1996-97. He put his in a closet while I used and sometimes abused mine. The thing is, I was never able to get the hilt apart. I recently started another thread on how the hilt was assembled, and decided to try heating the pommel one more time. Finally I was able to disassemble my hilt. No surprises, the tang was as I figured, so I polished it up and reassembled. My friend is also a collector, but not much of a cutter. After a few bottles, however, he got the bug. He asked me to sharpen and clean his blade up a bit. I heated the pommel and began to disassemble when I found this..... The tang looks like welded Re-bar..... I would almost swear thats what it is. It's soft, and I feel very easy to bend.....and the weld bead is gigantic, so big I can't remove the rest of the hilt...and there is discoloration from the heat of the weld. Now I want to stress my blade is not like this, when I get it back I'll take a few pics of it to show the contrast. I know Cas/Iberia has changed alot in the past 10 years, and this shouldn't reflect on their newer stuff, but damn....this was sold "battle ready" even back then.....what if by some twist of fate, I had gotten this one and used it to cut?.....I shudder to think. I figured I'd post this not as a rant about Iberian blades, like I said This blade is over 10 yrs old, and I'm sure tis has been resolved by their Q.C.. No, this post is a warning....... there is always a chance that something like this could be lurking in a "battle ready" sword near you!!!! Update: Tangs broke....... I reassembled it and took a dry swing. I expected the break and wasn't disapointed....now, what to do with the leftovers.....
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2009 23:47:57 GMT
no not really i got one of there newer ones , last summer i think and it snapped at the tang while cutting it did look cleaner but just as narrow and lest rebar but still tiny thin tang that was junk , /index.cgi?board=swordreviews&action=display&thread=5352 plan on doing anything with that guard and pommel??
|
|
|
Post by YlliwCir on Apr 21, 2009 23:49:17 GMT
Thanks, Avery. I remember early in my foray into swords I came across a website that favored Iberia swords. I'm not really making any point or sense probably, just reflecting on how things change.
Yeah, I remember that, Leo.
|
|
|
Post by tajima on Apr 21, 2009 23:53:22 GMT
What?
What is wrong with that tang? Looks perfectly fine to me.
It could even be better quality than all of the others. That looks like a decent weld right there, mister.
(Joking ;D)
But in all seriousness, this is scary and to think that they used to do this...short-cutting worries me to no end. Thankyou for posting this and I'm sure everyone who reads this will go and check their tangs.
Thanks, -Tajima
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2009 0:01:15 GMT
funny thing is i have a lionheart sword from them , bought around 96 or so and the tang it thick and welded and by crom i cant break that one , it have become one of my sword felling beaters ,
|
|
Avery
Member
Manufacturer/Vendor
"It's alright little brother... There are more!!!
Posts: 1,826
|
Post by Avery on Apr 22, 2009 0:20:20 GMT
Leo, I can't believe I missed that review....thanks for the link! I would say I'm glad to know this isn't the only one, but I'd be lying. Like I said, I don't want to this to turn into a "bashing party", but I do hope that someone from hanwei will take note..... What? What is wrong with that tang? Looks perfectly fine to me. It could even be better quality than all of the others. That looks like a decent weld right there, mister. (Joking ;D) But in all seriousness, this is scary and to think that they used to do this...short-cutting worries me to no end. Thankyou for posting this and I'm sure everyone who reads this will go and check their tangs. Thanks, -Tajima .......You misunderstand Taj......I think we should all have tangs like this!! In fact, whats the point of having a solid tang?.....Really just overkill if you ask me! plan on doing anything with that guard and pommel?? Thats up to my friend, but if I have my way I'll convert this into a short sword....I know a young lady who would love to have it. Thanks, Avery. I remember early in my foray into swords I came across a website that favored Iberia swords. I'm not really making any point or sense probably, just reflecting on how things change. Yeah, I remember that, Leo. I don't think you're rambling,... Maybe you're just being polite.
|
|
|
Post by hotspur on Apr 22, 2009 1:18:07 GMT
Not all small tangs and swords in general can provide safety and security. I had used the scan of these three before but not with the swords in front of us. The late nineties Espada Ropera from Windlass has 5/16" threads, not unlike a good many from the company. Because the thread is actually thicker than the blade shoulders, it is one reason many more current Windlass swords continue to creak and shift. I had fixed my with shims long ago and continue to abuse this sword. This was my first reproduction sword. The Oscar Kolombatovich is actually a serious veteran, as the previous owner had done things up to and including pounding on mail and armour strapped to a hanging side of beef. Patrick Kelly had started with that sword in the 1980s as his go to sword for many years. I bought it from him as an example of the past, somewhere around 2000. I have cut with it since then but there are so many others that are better at it. Not a terribly ugly sword but scary to most. The thread is 1/4", as is most of the tang. Note the odd stepped shoulder that helps absorb stress (and it did the job). [the story is still listed at NetSword. The Danish War Sword was from the Del Tin/MRL years and was put together by Eddie Floyd and others that had been in the Museum Replicas golden years. That one as well has 1/4" threads. I have been quite merciless with that one as well and is my favorite brush sword. A real dandy, that had come second hand through Craig Johnson, who had been liquidating someones estate. The CAS/Iberia stuff had always been a bit iffy. Gus Trim did some reviews of a few of them back in the day of Twilight Door. Those as well can be dredged up through looking in old indexes but they are hidden right now (iirc) Accessible but hidden Easter Eggs. It can be too easy to lump Hanwei production in with it now. They were lines I certainly browsed berfore settling on a first. Quite soon, there was little looking back. I have picked up a few oddballs since. Yes, if you don't know and can ivestigate the build it is always a good way to go. I worry a little about the cutlass I posted about but the tang is more than 15mm wide as it goes through the guard and I can get no twisting or rattles out of it after some blunt thumping. I have a couple of decorative LOTR clones to look just recently. Very much pencil thick like the OK but very badly attached. Suprisingly the blades on those seem springy but just horribly ground and fitted. One was the Witch King from KOA in the blowout section, the other of the same ilk and laberled as the Wizard. Real doots but they were cheap and can inform folk that vist my tables. The scabbards are trash too, that was the only reason to try them out. Cheers Hotspur; Be safe and if you can't be safe, at least be happy. Swords are fun
|
|
|
Post by Brendan Olszowy on Apr 22, 2009 2:20:03 GMT
CAS Iberia's old Kriss Sword. I cut with it a couple of times before it bent super substantially on a 1litre bottle. I never cut with it again after feeling the complete lack of spring when I straightened it. Now I'm glad I never abused it. I cut the tang to get the guard off in case I want to cast it one day. It had a big 3/16 bolt welded to it half way down, to which the pommel and rear ferrule were screwed. Here's the blade in the bin, where it belongs... Check out that hollow grinding and funky secondary bevel.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2009 4:53:03 GMT
I read the title and hoped that the OP was about an unbelievably GOOD tang. Oh well...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2009 15:29:18 GMT
It's crazy that some swords are called ''battle ready'' with crapy tangs i think a lot of swords have come a long way Any sword over $300 should never have a bad tang in my opinion or even over $250 there is no reason that it should be acceptable that goes for hollow pommels too
|
|
Avery
Member
Manufacturer/Vendor
"It's alright little brother... There are more!!!
Posts: 1,826
|
Post by Avery on Apr 22, 2009 21:29:37 GMT
CAS Iberia's old Kriss Sword. I cut with it a couple of times before it bent super substantially on a 1litre bottle. I never cut with it again after feeling the complete lack of spring when I straightened it. Now I'm glad I never abused it. I cut the tang to get the guard off in case I want to cast it one day. It had a big 3/16 bolt welded to it half way down, to which the pommel and rear ferrule were screwed. Here's the blade in the bin, where it belongs... Check out that hollow grinding and funky secondary bevel. Man Brenno, that is pretty wild.....what exactly is going on with the secondary bevel....Its hard to see, but if what I think I'm seeing is supposed to be the bevel, than all I can say is "Jeeez". @ Hotspur- I see what your saying, but at least all the tangs in your pic are solid, not welded .....I know if a tang's welded properly and recessed deep enough in the blade, some will say its acceptable, but I know of no one who'll say a weld bead right in the middle, or a 1/4 of the way from the shoulder is acceptable on a "battle ready" sword.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2009 22:51:57 GMT
I have to agree with Avery on this one it was lucky nobody got hurt with this so called ''battle ready'' sword
|
|
|
Post by Brendan Olszowy on Apr 24, 2009 14:07:29 GMT
CAS Iberia's old Kriss Sword. I cut with it a couple of times before it bent super substantially on a 1litre bottle. I never cut with it again after feeling the complete lack of spring when I straightened it. Now I'm glad I never abused it. I cut the tang to get the guard off in case I want to cast it one day. It had a big 3/16 bolt welded to it half way down, to which the pommel and rear ferrule were screwed. Here's the blade in the bin, where it belongs... Check out that hollow grinding and funky secondary bevel. Man Brenno, that is pretty wild.....what exactly is going on with the secondary bevel....Its hard to see, but if what I think I'm seeing is supposed to be the bevel, than all I can say is "Jeeez". @ Hotspur- I see what your saying, but at least all the tangs in your pic are solid, not welded .....I know if a tang's welded properly and recessed deep enough in the blade, some will say its acceptable, but I know of no one who'll say a weld bead right in the middle, or a 1/4 of the way from the shoulder is acceptable on a "battle ready" sword. Yeah butt welding is not on. Recessing the rod into a full tang, and including 100% encapsulating weld is ok, but that's it. Yup, we threaded on that not long ago. And yeah, this sword was semprini. Nuff said.
|
|
Avery
Member
Manufacturer/Vendor
"It's alright little brother... There are more!!!
Posts: 1,826
|
Post by Avery on Apr 24, 2009 14:58:13 GMT
Yeah butt welding is not on. Recessing the rod into a full tang, and including 100% encapsulating weld is ok, but that's it. Yup, we threaded on that not long ago. And yeah, this sword was semprini. Nuff said. I've seen some decent welded tangs, some recessed in the blade as much a six inches....the maker used a leather ricasso to cover up the welds...... To my knowledge he still uses it to cut and hasn't had any issues with it. The down side to it is. IMO, it takes longer and more effort to do a proper weld like that than it does making the sword full tang to begin with.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2009 0:03:14 GMT
i use to have a buddy who could weld anything and do it well. i have 2 swords i had him cut a slot in tang and he got mechine grade bolts and welded them on for me , and 2 years later they still taken much abuse ;D
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2009 15:41:15 GMT
I still don't see why this is a problem. I mean...really, how hard is it to simply cut out a large tang when you're first making the sword, if you're CNCing it, or forge one onto the blade, if you're forging it.
Can some maker give me the reason for this? Seems like welding would just take longer and give shoddy results. Is it putting the handle on that they're trying to save trouble with, so they can just drill through?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2009 15:58:36 GMT
I agree with you hammer but i think it is done as it is cheaper because it is less time consuming.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 5, 2009 20:53:03 GMT
I am new to the sword world and recently bought a medieval sword. Can all pommels come off, and the sword be disassembled? I believe the sword is full tang because I can see the end of the blade hammered on the end of the pommel.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 5, 2009 21:00:22 GMT
I am new to the sword world and recently bought a medieval sword. Can all pommels come off, and the sword be disassembled? I believe the sword is full tang because I can see the end of the blade hammered on the end of the pommel. Some tangs have a thread on them which allows the pommel to screw off the tang(or have some kind of nut that will unscrew) other tangs are peened , (ie the of the tang is hammered almost like a rivet head) securing the pommel. To answer your question some pommels can be removed others can’t
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 29, 2009 3:55:46 GMT
thanks I believe that mine is peened
|
|