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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2009 21:03:32 GMT
I didn't think anything. ;D
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2009 21:39:14 GMT
I will not speak as to the majority of this thread as that is not within my purview nor is it my business. However, in regards to the original question, I feel like there are at least a couple of considerations at play.
Firstly, I do agree that there is a "free market" system; and as it has been mentioned that you could easily find the same sword for $200 and that Drache was offered $300 with the full knowledge of the price online. Insofar as it can be viewed as just a market transaction, then there is nothing wrong with it, especially since Drache has made all the efforts to make this person purchase the sword for fair price.
At the same time, knowing full well that he will make twice the cost of the sword, Drache is asking whether or not he can do it on good conscience. The fact that he is consulting us on this question tells me something about his discomfort with it. I feel that regardless of what we say or what our sense of morality is, feeling will often trump rationality. Therefore, Drache, at least to me, I feel like regardless of what is normatively right, if you should make the decision that you feel is comfortable to you, then it is the right decision to make. If you feel like you would not feel an overwhelming guilt/etc.. at making this sale, then by all means, do it without hesitation. If you however feel as though you will have somehow compromised yourself, then perhaps offer to give it to him at a slightly lower cost or purchase a second sword for him and then mark it up slightly more (I wouldn't necessarily sell it for more than what stores sell for - because in theory he could just go to a store and pick one up)
Again, do what you think will make you ok with the decision, whatever that may be. And you can be sure that we won't think any less of you, regardless of what you do.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2009 22:20:36 GMT
I'd say sell it to him...
You did the noble thing by telling him what it costs, and even told him where to order one for a third of the price.
If the guy is STILL willing to pay you $300 for it, then go for it! If its worth that much extra for the convenience of not having to order online, then that's his choice.
So long as the guy isn't mentally challenged or anything... Take the money and buy something nicer!
EDIT: I have spoken out against huge markups, and people jacking-up prices when selling other people a sword in the past. And i still feel the same way. But this sword is not a limited number item, nor is it rare... Really, its a quite different situation.
Thinking back to things i have bought in the past, there were a few situations i remember that i was willing to pay nearly $100-$120 extra, just for the convenience of having the item right then & there. Rather than waiting a week or 2 weeks to order it. And it was almost the same situation as this, I OFFERED to pay extra, the guy told me where i could buy one for cheap. But i wanted it then, and it was worth it to me to spend the extra cash.
If its worth it to this guy to pay an extra $200.... well, its a little more than i would spend for the convenience, but if that's worth it to him then that's his thing.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2009 22:20:55 GMT
Ok, I'll give my two cents on this. The guy offering you the money should be an acquaintance of you at least, or else a friend of yours. You are right in that you have not misled him, he is well aware of the online price and the amount of money he is offering for the item in question. Now, yourself, if you take the money which includes a $200 bonus, will you feel good about it; skip the shrewd businessman and the hustler part, be truthful to yourself, will you feel good by doing it? If the answer is yes, go ahead and do it, you have not lied or cheated no one, he is buying on his own accord at the price he offered. BUT, if you FEEL you are ripping him off, and you are doing an unfair business which will make you feel guilty or bad with yourself, reconsider and come up with a more fair tag price (again, you are not cheating him out, you gave him all the info and specs and opportunities, it's his call to keep wanting to buy it for the $300). In essence do what brings you peace of mind, regardless of what others including myself might think or suggest.
Jose A. Rosario
PS: I know marc is perfectly capable of handling this situation but the comment on him was totally unecessary and unwarranted. Please tone it down, let's try not to get things out of context or control.
Thanks in advance.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2009 22:47:10 GMT
If it were me, I'd try to sell it at something closer to the Musashi price. Just enough to replace it and maybe shipping in case you need to get another replacement. If he still wants to pay $300 for it, there's not much you can do.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2009 23:58:11 GMT
so are you saying marabunta that if someone walked up and offered you $10,000 for a sword you purchased for $500 that you would just say no thanks and refused to accept anything over $600? somehow I highly doubt that.... Now my conscience does like to play tricks on me, but after telling him where to buy one cheaper, he refused so my conscience is settled. No drache, that is not what I am saying at all. The $100 figure is not standardized, it is based on a number of factors. However, the item you have listed is a common production piece which to my knowledge has not been discontinued. I think some have once again misunderstood me here, surprise surprise. I UNDERSTAND the point of view that is being represented here, believe me. "If someone wants to pay me X dollars after I have tried to inform him then who am I to stand in his way?" Yeah, I get it, but the fact of the matter is this. Had he never been approached by anyone looking to purchase the blade and someone asked him what he thought his blade was worth, I assure you the number would not be $300, because that would be absurd. However, his number in this situation CAN be adjusted based on circumstance. Clearly, the blade is worth more to him than the original price he paid because it is a blade without flaw and which (I assume) performs well. So, because of those factors, the price can be adjusted accordingly because there is no guarantee the next blade will be identical. This is of course a risk, however, the risk is paid off with a premium because he would had FREE use of his blade as well as an additional $100 in his pocket to upgrade to a better blade. But, if Drache really believes that the effort it takes to order and wait for a new blade is $200, then go for it dude, but for me personally, its a bit high and I couldnt do it. In fact what I would probably do in this case is get $100 over the total cost of a new blade from the buyer, order it, and when it arrives I would give the buyer his blade and pocket the difference. That way, no matter what I still have my original blade.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2009 0:21:40 GMT
Ok, first things first. I would like to apologize to Marc for my "big words comment", I can totally see how that could have been interpreted by someone who doesn't know me personally. Let me just say that I use that phrase from time to time within my group of friends in a comedic sense and did not mean to offend you in that manner. I should have attached the appropriate smiley face, but neglected to. Now, with regard to your post: Well Marabunta, If you must know.... You are always full of business advice.... and how to run a profitable business, and about what is fair in business.... Thank you for not calling me a liar. So let us examine fittings.... There are a number of fittings available at various sites. These all come from one Japanese supplier. These fittings , in their various stylings are offered by many vendors at a price of $75 to $90 on average. Recently , I was able to purchase an identical set of these fittings from another reseller for about $25 . Now we both know enough about business to know that even that guy wasn't offering these fittings out of the goodness of his heart ... he too was making a profit. So what we see at the various sites that offers these fittings is a markup of about 400 % , correct? I assume you do not detest these sellers, since I've never heard you rail against them... Well, this is true, I have not made a stand against those retailers because I have not done business with them. When you spoke of your purchase from a re-seller, I assume you meant a business. In that case there are a lot of variables in this scenario. Are you saying that you know without question that the person you bought your fittings from buys his fittings for the exact same price as the other retailers in the market? And even if this were the case then tell me this, why would your re-seller sell them so cheap? Clearly the market bears a higher price. According to your logic he shouldn't do such a thing because he has an opportunity to make 400% more. Further, if I recall correctly , you are the proprietor, or past proprietor of a pawn shop. I may be mistaken, but I believe that is what I remember reading..... If so, I must say, that it is a business LEGENDARY for exploitation and predatory interest rates, and super mark-ups.... which leads to my surprise at your stance on this price that is WILLINGLY being offered from a buyer. Again Marc, you are correct, and yes one of my businesses is a Pawn shop. However, all pawn shops are no the same. The only reason why we have a pawn license is to be able to purchase precious metals off the street without hassle from the state. As for the interest rates, 306% APR is mighty steep but it is the LIMIT, however every pawn shop doesn't charge the limit of the law. As for the super mark-ups, im not sure what you are referring to. In fact, a pawn shop can be a great place to get second hand items for a VERY reasonable price. While I have no presentiment of strapping on gloves , or whatever macho response is preferred, I much rather just have the beer.... I don't dislike you , nor do you irritate / anger me, but I don't have a problem dispassionately debating our differences with you without becoming insulting or threatening.... As I have already stated, dissenting opinions , and the candid , unemotional examination of them between intelligent parties is what drives discussion forums.... obviously I consider you intelligent , or I would not take the time to engage in discourse with you about our divergences.... Agreed
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2009 2:48:14 GMT
300? Thats ridiculous! I'll take nothing short of 500!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2009 5:33:15 GMT
Take the 300. There is no moral issue. All is up front. Raven
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2009 10:13:37 GMT
300? Thats ridiculous! I'll take nothing short of 500! Haha! ;D Thats my kind of business!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2009 10:20:49 GMT
Don't get carried away, take the 300. A done deal with all happy. Raven
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Post by YlliwCir on Apr 22, 2009 10:45:29 GMT
I think it'd be "justifiable" to take the $300. I interpret "moral" to be a more personal thing, so that would depend on the individual. For me it would come down to a combination of how bad I needed the money and how close a friend it was.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2009 10:57:10 GMT
Some of you may not like me after this but I'm american. This country is built on capitalism and free market economy. Let me say tjhis clearly: I WOULD SELL IT SO FAST IT WOULD LOOK LIKE A STREAKING BULLET MORE THAN A SWORD. You have gone aboce and beyond already. Does Walmart tell you what they pay for goods before you buy them? No. Does Best-Buy tell you how to get a HDTV for 200% less than their asking price? No. What you pay for anything is YOUR business. What someone else is willing to pay is between you and them. We live in a world where people want instant gratification. Those who have the discipline to wait will get a better deal and always be able to make a profit from those who aren't. There is nothing wrong with this. I recently bought a 32 ton air jack at an auction for $17.50. The retail price of this jack is $1,750.00. Does this mean I should sell the jack for $32.00? NO WAY! I invested the time to do the research and gain knowledge about the item so I knew what I was buying. How much is that time worth? Whatever I can get for it. That's what free markets are all about. Btw I sold that jack for $895.00. I don't feel one bit guilty. Furthermore, if I should feel guilty then so should many people here. I parlayed that profit into swords, bought from a forum member and other vendors, then reviewed them here. Anyone who gained any knowledge from those reviews or got money for those swords profited in some fashion from the profit I made off that jack. I certainly hope no one feels guilty about it. It's called economy and that's how free markets work Do as you wish Drache. I commend you for thinking about it and trying to be a moral businessman. If you have a moral dilemma with making "too much" profit then by all means don't do it. I personally do not suffer from this moral dilemma. The first thing taught about economics is the system of supply and demand. Besides, look at the profit some pro athletes make and ask yourself if you are providing this gentlemean a service that is more valuable than entertaining him. Now ask yourself if you are making as much as some pro athletes get for an autograph. lol
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2009 11:14:06 GMT
This country is built on capitalism and free market economy. Let me say tjhis clearly: I WOULD SELL IT SO FAST IT WOULD LOOK LIKE A STREAKING BULLET MORE THAN A SWORD. I'd be urged to make a history session here, but then I'll be violating the rules I'm suppossed to enforce..........but then, I'll just say that the men that defined the modern concept of capitalism, the likes of JP Morgan and Andrew Carnegie to mention two of them, sprung to riches thru unconventional methods to be subtle, as they and other of the "fine gentlemen" that defined that period and gave name to modern capitalism, also had a peculiar collective nickname that applied to all...........
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2009 11:25:31 GMT
Just take the 300. Raven
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2009 11:36:21 GMT
Take the money, It's the American way that made this country what it is today. No one has actually taken a deep seeded "moral" stance on selling a sword for any amount above what you paid for it save a KI. But then again you were offered this amount, not requested it as a selling price I belive.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2009 13:25:11 GMT
What would you do is someone came up and offered you $300 for a sword that you technically purchased for only $100? Would you sell it to him and then buy yourself another one or tell them where you bought it for cheap? This happened to me last night and this morning I told him where to get it online but he doesn't trust buying anything online and once again offered me $300 for my Musashi 808 even though he knew exactly how much they cost online. He's has a ton (and I mean a ton) of SLO swords and I guess watching me cut bottles with it makes him really want one. So do I take the $300 and buy another one or do I just order him one online and charge him the exact price when it arrives? I say, hell yeah. He wants to purchase the sword for 300, I guess he's a grown man that can make his own decisions. Sell him the sword and buy another.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2009 14:35:39 GMT
Take the money, It's the American way that made this country what it is today. You say that like its a good thing. Have you had a look around lately? The "take all you can get" philosophy is a large part of why this country is suffering right now.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2009 14:46:49 GMT
Morality has nothing to do with it that's just the way the world works buy low sell high but if your conscience tell's you not to sell then dont it's that easy. I myself would sell it in a heart beat if he wants it so badly .
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2009 15:45:45 GMT
Sell it. FreeMarket, and all that. The people you are buying your sword from are doing the same to you . You have done very well, and nobly told him where to purchase said sword at a better price.... He would rather pay $300 for your known quantity sword, than to gamble on an Internet purchase. SO sell it to him.... you ar eproviding him a screening service , and he is willing to compensate you for it. No moral delima.... Yea I have to go with Marc on this. As you did, I would have told them where to get it at lower price, and offered to sell mine for the cost to buy myself another one online. But if they are still willing to pay more for it, basically because they know it's what they want and can cut etc etc, then so be it.
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