Marc Ridgeway
Member
Retired Global Moderator
"The best cost less when you buy it the first time." - Papabear
Posts: 3,122
|
Post by Marc Ridgeway on Apr 21, 2009 18:05:27 GMT
I am really surprised to see these responses from people. This is a perfect example of just how flawed we are as a species....greed. I understand that this in not a moral dilemma as the buyer was given the info to buy his own at 1/3 the price. However, just because it isn't a moral issue, I believe this is an issue of fairness. But, before we go any further I want to say that this whole scenario make ZERO sense to me. Even an individual who is wealthy is unlikely to offer such a premium price. So, I believe there is something amiss with this whole thing. I can only revert to the old saying, "if it sounds too good to be true, it usually is", so I would be VERY cautious in this situation. Now, back to the issue of fairness. Let me ask all those who are in favor of this deal to tell me where they draw the line in the sand and say "no, thats too much". Is that number 400, 500, 1000, 10,000. What is the price of your conscience? What number will make you feel bad about yourself for taking such a shameless profit margin. This is a question of character and ethics more than anything else. I feel in this situation a fair price should be very carefully calculated. For example, one must take into consideration the length of time the seller will be without a blade while the new one is on order. If the seller has other blades to use then this is a relative non-issue. There is the consideration of time to re-order another blade and the possibility that the new blade may come flawed and require an additional length of time to return it for exchange or refund. These are important considerations because the blade being sold has none of these issues, so there is value there. Personally, I would have to draw the line at a maximum of $100.00 net profit and that would depend on how much use the original sword had on it and the overall condition. Anything more than that is just greed anyway you slice it. In life, just because one CAN do something, doesn't me he/she SHOULD. Just my .02 Hmmmm , Not quite the rant I would expect from you, Marabunta.... almost seems antithesis to what I've learned about you ... and I have to wonder if youdon't just enjoy taking contrary positions.... Now I agree that consideration should be taken with choosing a price.... but in this case the item was not for sale... an offer was made on it.... All that stuff about the price of you conscience really holds no water.... the price was offered on a sword that was not being offered for sale.... The party that recieved the offer countered by telling the offerer where he could purchase the sword for 1/3 the price... at this point the offer was reiterated. By acknowleging the actual price of this item and directing the prospective buyer to the source, and and all concientious obligation has been fulfilled.... in fact , he has gone ABOVE and BEYOND. 300% even 500% markups are not rare... more common.... but in this case , i repeat , it is not even a markup... this was an offer , not a price.... I'm sorry, but I think Drache has been more than fair. He has revealed out of fairness what was the other party's responsibility to discover through due diligence.... There just is not a down side here ... In my opinion your righteous indignation would be better spent picketing your local convience store, title-pawn shop, or movie theater concession stand.... I mean this with the utmost respect of course....
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2009 18:15:02 GMT
Sell it for 300.00 then buy 3 more...just kidding...Musashi is still bottom of the barrel, right above Masahiro. Your choice man...
|
|
|
Post by sparky on Apr 21, 2009 18:23:20 GMT
I see no dilemma here. You have a sword that someone wants, forget the value for a moment, it's yours not his. He has offered you a price for this sword, you did not have to tell him the value of said sword. All you have to do is say yes or no, but you informed him of the value and how he could purchase the same sword for less. HE chooses not to, that's his choice, so again you can say yes or no.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2009 18:36:14 GMT
Two cents of failure. You did the right thing drache, don't let anyone tell you its a bad thing to make this quick profit, he probably doesn't want to deal with customs, and considering what you put up with he has a reason.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2009 18:45:05 GMT
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2009 18:46:39 GMT
My $0.02
I have found that something is worth what some one will pay for it. If someone walked up to me with $10,000 and wanted to buy my Musashi Bamboo sword I would let it go without hesitation.
|
|
Marc Ridgeway
Member
Retired Global Moderator
"The best cost less when you buy it the first time." - Papabear
Posts: 3,122
|
Post by Marc Ridgeway on Apr 21, 2009 18:51:32 GMT
I agree , nothing wrong with dissenting opinions, but lets do try not to be insulting.... By the same token I can see how the sweeping assessment of greed in the post you were quoting could be seen as insulting as well, Konishii.... Anyway , lets all play nice , Ok? Different points of view are welcomed... hell , they are what drives a forum.... but lets do be nice in debating them.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2009 19:01:45 GMT
The wise have spoken, i need a D&D session, lol. I'm surprised i was threatened tho, But this is the internet.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2009 19:10:39 GMT
Hmmmm , Not quite the rant I would expect from you, Marabunta.... Not a rant Marc, only a point of view. almost seems antithesis to what I've learned about you ... and I have to wonder if you don't just enjoy taking contrary positions.... I find that interesting Marc, perhaps you could tell me what posts I have made here in the past seem to conflict with my comments on this situation. I think if anything, I believe my posts have always centered around the idea of fairness. Now I agree that consideration should be taken with choosing a price.... but in this case the item was not for sale... an offer was made on it.... Well, yes and no Marc. The blade was not offered for sale, but considering the content of the OM, it IS for sale at the right price, and there is nothing wrong with that. The question here is how much is too much. All that stuff about the price of you conscience really holds no water.... the price was offered on a sword that was not being offered for sale.... The issue here has nothing to do with the offer from the buyer, but rather the acceptance of said offer by the seller, which is why he posted here in the first place. By acknowleging the actual price of this item and directing the prospective buyer to the source, and and all concientious obligation has been fulfilled.... in fact , he has gone ABOVE and BEYOND. He has gone above and beyond in telling the buyer....blah blah blah.....yeah, I hear you Marc, but again, this isnt about the buyers decision to ignore information. This is about the sellers decision to take advantage of that fact. At no time did i say the seller here needed to sell the sword for what the market would pay, nor did I say he should be absent of profit, what I said was, there is fair with all things considered and then there is crossing the line. These of course are MY opinions and he can do whatever the hell he wants. 300% even 500% markups are not rare... more common.... but in this case , i repeat , it is not even a markup... this was an offer , not a price.... 300-500% markups are not rare Marc, you are correct, but are they fair? And yes, you are correct, it was not a price but rather an offer. However, perhaps you need to re-read the last sentence in my original post. I'm sorry, but I think Drache has been more than fair. He has revealed out of fairness what was the other party's responsibility to discover through due diligence.... Ok Marc, that's your opinion. Once again, yours and mine conflict, no surprise there. There just is not a down side here ... That all depends on how you look at it Marc. There is no downside that YOU can see. In my opinion your righteous indignation would be better spent picketing your local convience store, title-pawn shop, or movie theater concession stand.... Woah woah Marc, keep using those big words you might get a nosebleed. The only thing I have supplied here is my opinion of a situation. Righteous would have been to suggest that the seller let the blade go for its current market value, because that is all its worth. I have said NOTHING of the sort. I believe profit is in order here by all means, its just the amount we disagree on. I mean this with the utmost respect of course.... [/quote] Of course you did Marc, im sure one day we will sit at a table over a beer and just laugh and laugh about this stuff. Then of course we can go get the gloves out the trunk of my car
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2009 19:18:14 GMT
The wise have spoken, i need a D&D session, lol. I'm surprised i was threatened tho, But this is the internet. No threat issued, I explained in my PM response and am happy to discuss it further if you wish.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2009 19:28:24 GMT
I agree , nothing wrong with dissenting opinions, but lets do try not to be insulting.... By the same token I can see how the sweeping assessment of greed in the post you were quoting could be seen as insulting as well, Konishii.... If by sweeping you mean inclusive of our species then I guess I am guilty. I spoke of greed as a concept which applies to ALL including myself. It is inherent in our species but often times conflicts with other core values, which I believe to be the case here. I believe the purpose of the OP post here was to collect different points of view to weigh and aid in a decision. I think he is getting exactly that, which is all that really matters at this point
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2009 19:31:37 GMT
so are you saying marabunta that if someone walked up and offered you $10,000 for a sword you purchased for $500 that you would just say no thanks and refused to accept anything over $600?
somehow I highly doubt that....
Now my conscience does like to play tricks on me, but after telling him where to buy one cheaper, he refused so my conscience is settled.
|
|
Marc Ridgeway
Member
Retired Global Moderator
"The best cost less when you buy it the first time." - Papabear
Posts: 3,122
|
Post by Marc Ridgeway on Apr 21, 2009 19:41:31 GMT
Well Marabunta,
If you must know....
You are always full of business advice.... and how to run a profitable business, and about what is fair in business....
Also you are a collector of high end swords and accoutrements, mentioning how you have lots of high end fittings , etc.
So let us examine fittings....
There are a number of fittings available at various sites. These all come from one Japanese supplier. These fittings , in their various stylings are offered by many vendors at a price of $75 to $90 on average.
Recently , I was able to purchase an identical set of these fittings from another reseller for about $25 . Now we both know enough about business to know that even that guy wasn't offering these fittings out of the goodness of his heart ... he too was making a profit.
So what we see at the various sites that offers these fittings is a markup of about 400 % , correct?
I assume you do not detest these sellers, since I've never heard you rail against them...
Further, if I recall correctly , you are the proprietor, or past proprietor of a pawn shop. I may be mistaken, but I believe that is what I remember reading.....
If so, I must say, that it is a business LEGENDARY for exploitation and predatory interest rates, and super mark-ups.... which leads to my surprise at your stance on this price that is WILLINGLY being offered from a buyer.
Now that is damn right insulting , and unbecoming of you Marabunta. I appreciate your acerbic "concern" for my well being, but I assure you that I only use words that my paltry intellect is capable of...
And believe it or not , I am able to pretty deftly read into situations , and people occasionally , when I'm having one of my good days... even capable of basic math upon occasion, as long as I can stamp out the answer with my hoof....
I have done my best not to be insulting to you , and even to try to discourage other's insulting remarks to you , but I see you labor under no such constaint....
While I have no presentiment of strapping on gloves , or whatever macho response is preferred, I much rather just have the beer....
I don't dislike you , nor do you irritate / anger me, but I don't have a problem dispassionately debating our differences with you without becoming insulting or threatening....
As I have already stated, dissenting opinions , and the candid , unemotional examination of them between intelligent parties is what drives discussion forums.... obviously I consider you intelligent , or I would not take the time to engage in discourse with you about our divergences....
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2009 19:48:46 GMT
I fail to see how this greed. There is no fair or unfair in this situation. Something is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. That is the basis of our economy. To your friend getting the sword from someone he knows and trusts is worth more than he would save buying himself online. Whether we agree with his choice has no bearing. How much is too much? That's up to the buyer, not the seller. How much profit the seller makes is not an issue.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2009 20:01:40 GMT
|
|
Marc Ridgeway
Member
Retired Global Moderator
"The best cost less when you buy it the first time." - Papabear
Posts: 3,122
|
Post by Marc Ridgeway on Apr 21, 2009 20:09:22 GMT
Oh now now boys... play nice...or I shall strap on MY gloves and it's ALL downhill from there I'm sure we don't want that Michelle . I am suitably chastised. I will play nice... *tucks tail between legs*
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2009 20:17:47 GMT
Oh now now boys... play nice...or I shall strap on MY gloves and it's ALL downhill from there As i read this i couldn't help but imagine Tifa (FF 7) Strapping her gloves on and kicking some Ass.. I would do anything to avoid that, so... ill hide behind this here wall if a fight breaks out.
|
|
|
Post by sparky on Apr 21, 2009 20:31:09 GMT
Oh now now boys... play nice...or I shall strap on MY gloves and it's ALL downhill from there As i read this i couldn't help but imagine Tifa (FF 7) Strapping her gloves on and kicking some Ass.. I would do anything to avoid that, so... ill hide behind this here wall if a fight breaks out. Ha ha.... you take the wall, I'll hide behind this here sword....... but wait can't she break both walls and swords We all may be in trouble Thanks for bringing it down mparish ;D
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2009 20:31:43 GMT
Oh now now boys... play nice...or I shall strap on MY gloves and it's ALL downhill from there I'm sure we don't want that Michelle . I am suitably chastised. I will play nice... *tucks tail between legs* ;D Don't tuck your tail...wag it If you think it will save you... ;D Funny, as I read that I couldn't help but think of the hitchiker's guide... [Bartender] You serious sir? Do you really think the world is going to end this afternoon? [Ford Prefect] Uh, yes, in just over 3 minutes and 5 seconds. [Bartender] Well, isn't there anything we can do? [Ford Prefect] No, nothing. [Bartender] I always thought we were supposed to lie down or put a paper bag over your head or something. [Ford Prefect] Yes, if you like. [Bartender] Will that help? [Ford Prefect] No. Excuse me. I've got to go. ;D
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2009 20:34:08 GMT
I really didn't think this post would become like this....
|
|