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Post by sparky on Mar 17, 2009 21:23:54 GMT
VA Sharp vs Extra Sharp: Pro's n Con's post got me wondering, I bought two swords recently and it looks like they were sharpened with an accusharp type tool. I am making the assumption that when people talk about a secondary bevel, this is what they are talking about. My question is can a real edge be put on a sword with this bevel, or is it best just to deal with it? I'm also assuming that the secondary bevel is not a real edge. Thanks in advance, Sparky
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Post by YlliwCir on Mar 17, 2009 21:30:36 GMT
Sparky, an accusharp does put on a rather steep secondary bevel. I have a couple swords I had sharpened at MRL and KOA, these also have a seondary bevel (tho not as steep as the accusharp would apply) I don't have a problem with these as they cut well and I would say they have a real edge. A sword with a seconary bevel can be shaped into an appleseed type edge (which I prefer). Currently I don't think I'll bother with reshapeing mine. I would avoid the accusharp type devices.
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Post by sparky on Mar 17, 2009 21:56:54 GMT
Thanks RicWilly, I have not cut with these swords yet, so I guess I'll let that determine if I attempt to do anything.
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SlayerofDarkness
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"Always give everyone the benefit of the doubt."
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Post by SlayerofDarkness on Mar 17, 2009 22:31:03 GMT
Can you post pictures of the swords' edges? We'll be able to tell how steep they are that way... -Slayer
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Post by sparky on Mar 17, 2009 23:14:23 GMT
Slayer, Here goes nothing. Man it's hard to get a picture of a blades edge ;D I always feel like I've accomplished a great feat when I get a computer to work ;D
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SlayerofDarkness
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Review Points: 65
"Always give everyone the benefit of the doubt."
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Post by SlayerofDarkness on Mar 18, 2009 0:57:43 GMT
Nice pics! I don't know enough to comment on how steep the bevels are, but I CAN say that it looks roughly similar to the sharpening KoA did on my Windlass Verneiul. And yes, that is DEFINITELY a secondary bevel! ;D
-Slayer
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2009 2:21:14 GMT
That isn't from an accusharp because the depth of that bevel is too deep for an accusharp. As for the angle...it doesn't look too steep of an angle from the picture. But pictures can be tricky with these things...even though you did an excellent job with the photography.
As for a beveled edge being a real edge...well it is real enough to cut your arm off...but it isn't a historic edge for most swords.
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Post by sparky on Mar 18, 2009 6:31:37 GMT
I really appreciate all the input. I guess one of the main reasons for asking is, they just don't "feel" sharp. I have one Katana, a cane sword, and a medieval sword (from unclebob w/SBG) that "feel" SHARP and do not have the "bevel".
Well I guess I really wont know anything until I cut with them, so again thanks a lot!!!
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Post by shadowhowler on Mar 18, 2009 6:43:00 GMT
Well I guess I really wont know anything until I cut with them, so again thanks a lot!!! Basicly, yup... I and many others prefer a appleseed edge... but I have seen plenty of swords with secondary bevels cut well. The 'extra sharp' Castile sword still has a secondary bevel... but it cuts pretty damn well. So give the sword a shot, cut a few things with it, and see how it works. ;D
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Post by hotspur on Mar 18, 2009 15:30:02 GMT
I wanted to share this as a perhaps informative and interesting thread from the past regarding military swords. forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?t=5896A minor rant may proceed to ensue here regarding bevels. First, something of a parable or moral regarding edges. I first learned how to sharpen edges when using forestry axes in the 1960s (not so long ago in the grand scheme of things). Having absconded with a lovely Swedish limbing axe, I added a standard Plumb axe to my stable. Brand new, someone comes across me filing down the heel of a brand new grind in order to thin the cheeks just a bit. For a few years past that stint and even today, that basic regrind performs wonderfully some forty years later. A compatriot spent hours slimming an (unusually nice double bit) axe head until it resembled more of a kitchen knive primary bevel. He was less happy when he took a big chunk out of the axe head. Moving on a bit here, let us regard primary bevels (the "flat" of the blade) whether curved (convex or concave [hollowground]) or no, the angle of the edge is often less an issue of a secondary bevel than the primary grind itself. A blade with enourmous niku (everyone follow that word?) is not unlike a good felling axe and the steepness of the edge will still relate to the primary grind. Maybe we should come back to that paragraph. If a sword is meant to have been sharpened, even a visual secondary bevel can be quite shallow and blend to the primary grind. Meaning, a lot of these are still quite keen/sharp/grass/bottle cuttable because one could polish that secondary bevel right off by blending to the finish of the primary grind. Check out an Albion closely, you'll see that final secondary blended some and that final edge of your pretty sword no different in performance than one seen more visually and more polished. Accusharps are a fine tool if used for its own merits. I use mine to remove a lot of metal quickly. Others with a very fine touch and a steady hand can produce a shredding sharp edge that often fails after some use. Failing in that the final wire edge/burr doesn't get polished off. The Accusharp angle is quite obtuse and set. There is a Boker item that looks like it is a much better alternative but the length of long blades can still be problematic. At least it will adjust to the existing grind a bit better. www.highcaliberknives.com/site/1634028/page/942031Sharpening blunts to a cuting edge requires (at the least) understanding the geometry of the primary grind. If you have not done so yet, take a look at the last posts in the thread I linked and also my axe story. In sharpening a blunt, keep in mind that you may want to reduce the primary grind behind the edge a bit in order to achieve a shallower and keener edge (secondary bevel). If someone is handy with a belt grinder, all the better but I would suggest trying on stuff you aren't worried about while you learn. The same is true with the hand operations as well and familiarity is only going to occur over time. I have been sharpening stuff by hand since the 1960s and still find new tricks. I know what works for me and I have no power tools to do it for me. The thoughts about sharpness and sharpening are volumous. Every new thread becomes a bit redundant if a new apprentice to it has never sharpened blade one. Both on the front page of many sites (such as SBG) just putting the word sharpening in any search engine will give the interested enormous amounts of information and preferences. Videos are cool to I guess. Though, just as easy for someone not to understand draw filing, running a belt sander or understand why a burr or wire edge dulls so quickly. Or even understand what a burr or wire edge is. Please do understand that if you don't want to maintain an edge without complete polishing, you may see a visual secondary that means less than what one might think. Cheers Hotspur; there are as many ways to get there as there are threads such as these
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2009 16:45:03 GMT
Hotspur, that was a well written and thought out post; I for one gathered a good deal of information that I had not known previously. Thanks for that.
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Post by Kilted Cossack on Mar 19, 2009 18:14:05 GMT
Hotspur does that a lot.
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