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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Mar 4, 2009 4:01:02 GMT
LOL! I do, but my sharpening stones DO NOT!
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Post by shadowhowler on Mar 4, 2009 4:31:30 GMT
LOL! I do, but my sharpening stones DO NOT! But... but... it's already "extra sharp"...
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Mar 4, 2009 4:34:42 GMT
that's why I want to swing it. but my stones all start to sweat and shiver anytime they hear the word "Castile" I think their nerves are shot.
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Post by shadowhowler on Mar 4, 2009 4:42:23 GMT
that's why I want to swing it. but my stones all start to sweat and shiver anytime they hear the word "Castile" I think their nerves are shot. Tell ya what... I have put about 8 hours total or maybe a bit more into this Cas/Hanwei Celtic sword... and I'm almost finished with my THIRD sharpening run on it. If it does not cut after this... I call it quits.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Mar 4, 2009 17:21:29 GMT
I would love to see how much weight I could shave off a castile with a good sharpening (maybe even give it a slight leaf shape. the problem is the hardness of that dang sword, I don't know if I really want to ever mess with one again.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2009 6:49:52 GMT
I'm holding out for Bristol ......... and hoping beyond hope that its got a good edge ......... So seriously, hands down now ........ if one ordered a Castile on extra sharp ..... they would be pretty solid on sharpness
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Post by shadowhowler on Mar 5, 2009 7:19:38 GMT
I'm holding out for Bristol ......... and hoping beyond hope that its got a good edge ......... So seriously, hands down now ........ if one ordered a Castile on extra sharp ..... they would be pretty solid on sharpness My Castile has the 'Extra Sharp' going on... and yes, it's sharp indeed. It still has a secondary bevel... but it is not as steep at the standard Castile edge was... and it cuts pretty well. Some people... and I think I have heard Tinker say this also, tho I am not sure, say a secondary bevel, if small, helps a sword be more durable... that a thin apple-seed edge such as found on a Katana gets damaged easier and requires more maintenance. I'm getting a Bristol also... and like you, I'm hoping for a nice, clean, apple-seed edge right out of the box.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Mar 5, 2009 16:56:28 GMT
it's true that a THIN apple-seed edge will take damage easily, but there's always the THICK apple-seed edge or what the Japanese would lots of niku. I think the Custom tuned Practical Atrim I have exibits the perfect amount of meat (niku means meat) for an edge to have. it is wicked sharp and cuts great but it is also very durable. I have banged my Practical into a 14 ga. steel can with no damage to the edge.
besides, let's be honest, if we are cutting plastic bottles and tatami mats like most of us do then how durable of an edge is really needed. bamboo might cause a little trouble but so far I've cut a lot of bamboo with my swords none of them have even been significantly dulled, let alone taken edge damage. so while a secondary bevel might be a tougher shape the gains in toughness are overshadowed by the loss in performance. if we need to take our swords out onto a battlefield where there will be opponents in heavy plate armor then perhaps a secondary bevel would be justified, but in that circumstance I think I'd just do what they did back in the day: carry a mace or maybe a triangular thrusting sword like a small sword.
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Post by shadowhowler on Mar 5, 2009 18:41:29 GMT
it's true that a THIN apple-seed edge will take damage easily, but there's always the THICK apple-seed edge or what the Japanese would lots of niku. I think the Custom tuned Practical Atrim I have exibits the perfect amount of meat (niku means meat) for an edge to have. it is wicked sharp and cuts great but it is also very durable. I have banged my Practical into a 14 ga. steel can with no damage to the edge. besides, let's be honest, if we are cutting plastic bottles and tatami mats like most of us do then how durable of an edge is really needed. bamboo might cause a little trouble but so far I've cut a lot of bamboo with my swords none of them have even been significantly dulled, let alone taken edge damage. so while a secondary bevel might be a tougher shape the gains in toughness are overshadowed by the loss in performance. if we need to take our swords out onto a battlefield where there will be opponents in heavy plate armor then perhaps a secondary bevel would be justified, but in that circumstance I think I'd just do what they did back in the day: carry a mace or maybe a triangular thrusting sword like a small sword. You won't get an argument from me... I prefer an appleseed edge as well... why do ya think I've put 8 hours into my Celtic sword? I was just putting that out there that I have heard it said, and by some people who have a pretty good understand of swords, that there are advantages to a secondary beveled sword that can still cut well.
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Mar 5, 2009 22:55:04 GMT
oh trust me Sean I know why you are working so hard. I haven't forgotten. I want to know how these swords were sharpened by the historical craftsmen. now I'm sure there was some "Sir Bubba of Redneck" who once said "to hell with sharpening my sword the way master smith/cutler so-and-so said/does, I'm just gonna grind hell outta this here edge until I get a sharp little V. Just like Mr. Green of Bever Lodge does it."
basically, while I suspect there may be some historical artifact swords that had secondary bevels from being taken care of by dolts, I want to know how the masters of the crafts did it.
I still like my apple-seed for those swords as it is appropriate. obviously flat or hollow grind is right for some types. I just have a hard time believing that a secondary bevel was considered the right thing to do.
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Post by ShooterMike on Mar 6, 2009 3:31:07 GMT
Actually... I've heard from a few sword makers that have examined museum artifacts, that quite a few surviving European medieval swords have secondary edge bevels to some degree or other. Some of the medieval swords in the Metropolitan Museum in NYC have distinct secondary edge bevels. I saw 'em from about 3 inches away. It was pretty unmistakable.
Just a little food for thought...
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Post by shadowhowler on Mar 6, 2009 3:45:24 GMT
I still like my apple-seed for those swords as it is appropriate. obviously flat or hollow grind is right for some types. I just have a hard time believing that a secondary bevel was considered the right thing to do. I'm currious how one sharpens a Hollow Ground Blade... I don't have one currently, but there is at least one I have my eyes on... and I have never found any info on how to do it. Mike: That doesn't surprise me one bit... back then when your sword saw extended and repeated use... cutting into bodies, smashing and slashing threw armour, banging into shields... and so on... I would think durability would be very, very important.
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Post by ShooterMike on Mar 6, 2009 3:58:42 GMT
It's my understanding that blades with a pronounced hollowground cross section are just about all sharpened with a secondary bevel of some kind. My Albion Regent is done that way.
And yeah, repeated sharpening of a sword in the field... no tellin' what kind of edge it's going to end up with.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2009 16:01:57 GMT
You know shadow, I asked myself that question actually this week. I've been sharpenning my XVIIIB Del Tin Gothic bastard. I actually found that using a dremel to thin out the bevel works well. Yes, not historic, I know but it is a lot faster. Files work great too but you can only use the upper half or you risk running over the central ridge. I'd imagine that a grinding wheel could probably do it with percision. Wish I had one, dremmel leaves marks that even 60 grit cannot get rid of entirely. Oh well, turned out well anyway.
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Post by shadowhowler on Mar 7, 2009 17:25:29 GMT
You know shadow, I asked myself that question actually this week. I've been sharpenning my XVIIIB Del Tin Gothic bastard. I actually found that using a dremel to thin out the bevel works well. Yes, not historic, I know but it is a lot faster. Files work great too but you can only use the upper half or you risk running over the central ridge. I'd imagine that a grinding wheel could probably do it with percision. Wish I had one, dremmel leaves marks that even 60 grit cannot get rid of entirely. Oh well, turned out well anyway. I'm going to have to figure out how to use a dremmel at some point... they seem to have endless applications for both wood and metal.
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