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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2009 23:01:03 GMT
www.museumreplicas.com/p-697-sacred-sword-of-muhammad.aspxwww.museumreplicas.com/p-699-sword-of-king-david.aspxSure, someone finally makes 2 actual Arab swords that aren't scimitars, and accurate ones.. but at close to 3k$ for each one? Thats disgusting, I thought MRL was supposed to be for the normal, non-six-figure-income lads like us? Why on earth can't they make "budget" versions? Especially of this "Sword of David" one? That sword is gorgeous and would make for an awesome cutter .. and it's not all that ornate to begin with. Pisses me off immensely, theres such a huge shortage of Islamic swords on the market, even in the non-budget category.. and now this. I think SBG should go for a budget version of that Sword of David, I think people would appreciate having an Arab sword that might actually have been used in the Crusades, as opposed to a Persian shamshir. Plus it's a gorgeous weapon, like an Arabic Viking sword kind of.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2009 23:05:09 GMT
Go here /index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=8834
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2009 23:18:34 GMT
Now that is really a downer... I'd love more islamic swords on the market. These two aren't really my style, but if Windlass doesn't get them sold their not going to make more in this direction. Great, were is a person supposed to get a good mameluke sword when no body produces them and even the "normal priced" companies only do insane offerings?
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Post by shadowhowler on Feb 20, 2009 23:24:57 GMT
It's hard enough just to find good Scimitars or Shamshirs... let alone those other arab swords.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2009 5:27:47 GMT
Yeah... That really is pretty disappointing... Sword producing companies should really produce more swords for a lower price for those of us who can't afford it!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2009 16:09:24 GMT
Surielarias.....
It is true that sword companies often produce more expensive swords, but those are often what sells the best, especially in places outside of the United States. I know that we all wish that there were cheaper priced swords, but the fact is, in other countries (China for sure), people buy swords as a status symbol....not to be used for cutting, or even practicing with. There is a good chance that these swords were made by Windlass for an entirely different market (middle east possibly???) and are just carried by MRL because Windlass is making them. I will tell you for a fact that if sword companies did not make the more expensive swords, they would not have the money to produce the cheaper swords. Cheaper swords have less of a markup and are generally held to a higher standard (because people practice and cut with them), you tell me how that is fair to the sword companies.....They do not make swords to piss you off....I promise.
Drew
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SlayerofDarkness
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Post by SlayerofDarkness on Feb 21, 2009 17:02:09 GMT
Wise words, my friend. Have a karma!
-Slayer
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2009 23:02:27 GMT
I agree with adtarp, high-priced swords usually have larger margins for profits; Windlass will make more money by selling a 2k $ sword than by selling a 300$ one (however, they will probably sell many more sub 300$ swords than 1k$ and more swords ...). I would also like more middle-eastern swords in the sub 300$ market. They are many types of curved blades made in the Middle-East that don't exist in the sub 300 $ market, besides in some very poorly known sellers. I would like to see more shamshir, kilj and tulwars, these would make great backyard cutters India, for example, produced a wide variety of blades and swords, many of which are virtually non-existent in the replica market.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2009 23:08:00 GMT
Surielarias..... It is true that sword companies often produce more expensive swords, but those are often what sells the best, especially in places outside of the United States. I know that we all wish that there were cheaper priced swords, but the fact is, in other countries (China for sure), people buy swords as a status symbol....not to be used for cutting, or even practicing with. There is a good chance that these swords were made by Windlass for an entirely different market (middle east possibly???) and are just carried by MRL because Windlass is making them. I will tell you for a fact that if sword companies did not make the more expensive swords, they would not have the money to produce the cheaper swords. Cheaper swords have less of a markup and are generally held to a higher standard (because people practice and cut with them), you tell me how that is fair to the sword companies.....They do not make swords to piss you off....I promise. Drew Yeah, you're exactly right. I know, my words weren't well placed or well thought out, but yeah, I understand what you're saying. I really wouldn'y mind a lower-quality sword so long as I could afford it, lol! But yeah---Regardless of price--sword producers should definitely broaden their variety of sword types!
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Post by Kilted Cossack on Feb 22, 2009 0:00:53 GMT
It's all a matter of emphasis. On the one hand it's nice to see historic Arabic and Middle Eastern blades, on the other hand it's frustrating that they're all froo-frawed out. ("Froo-fraw" is kind of like "bling" only perhaps a little less so.) Then again, part of me thinks "they've got the CADCAM file" or just "they've got the molds" for these swords! MRL doesn't list a contact e-mail, but they do have a comment form on the contact page. www.museumreplicas.com/t-contact.aspx One of the glories of the internet age is that its easy for like minded people to get together. Why not drop MRL a polite note? Something like "I'm a sword fan, and buy swords and use them for practice cutting on pool noodles and water bottles. I've bought several Windlass swords from MRL, and was interested to see the Sword of David and the Sword of Mohammed. Unfortunately, I am more interested in seeing plainer and more utilitarian swords of this style offered, for a price more in line with normal MRL pricing. I may be a lone voice in the wilderness, but please let Windlass know that if a simpler, working version of these blades were produced, I would buy them." We can let them know what we want. When I hear criticisms of Chinese or Indian quality, or quality control, I know in my heart of hearts that they can produce quality product if the specs are good and adhered to. We've got better, tougher, more historically accurate and sharper swords, in greater variety, than the world's probably ever seen. Look at the Tinker Hanwei collaborations, or Suttles' Valiant Armoury work with Trim and Fletcher and Lundemo. They are driving the market forward because of our demands. (The sword buying community in general, I mean.) I don't know how much money Windlass makes selling swords, but there's obviously some money in it for them. And they've shown that they're willing to try different types of swords to meet that market. Who knows? They could well say, "What the heck, we can always discontinue it if it doesn't sell, let's do a run of 2500 Swords of Mohammed?" Now I'm going to go tweet tweet with the little bluebird of happiness.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2009 1:21:00 GMT
Windlass is out of their class. They should stick to what they know and try to improve on that so their hilts don't rattle off.
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SlayerofDarkness
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Post by SlayerofDarkness on Feb 22, 2009 1:35:10 GMT
Normally, I'd agree with you, Tsafa. But how do you know that these swords aren't comparable to Albions? I mean, really know, because it seems unlikely to me as well. However, the quality (and occasional lack there-of ) of Windlass' lower end swords doesn't neccasarily mean that the high-end ones are similarly deficient... They could have invested a lot of that extra money into performance aspects, as well as the aesthetics. The normal Windlass heat-treatment is better than decent, so if they stepped it up, who knows? These really could be fantastic swords made by a low-end company trying to forge their way into the high-end market... Just food for thought, I guess. I don't see any actual proof of these Windlass' being overpriced, but that doesn't mean I'd buy one for half that. I don't want it to seem as though I'm supporting Windlass' choice to produce these, but I truly see no need to condemn it either. -Slayer
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2009 5:35:52 GMT
I truly see no need to condemn it either. -Slayer Your right. I should not condemn them outright. I am not buying either For the kind of money they are talking about though, I would insist on examining the product before buying. I would even negotiate for the right to return it for a full refund should I not be happy. Kind of like shopping for a BMW or Mercedes, I expect to test drive a few times plus free coffee and donuts just for stopping by to look at their showroom. I would not approach this deal like I was buying a sword but rather a diamond ring.
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Post by Jeff K. ( Jak) on Feb 22, 2009 5:53:29 GMT
Normally, I'd agree with you, Tsafa. But how do you know that these swords aren't comparable to Albions? I mean, really know, because it seems unlikely to me as well. However, the quality (and occasional lack there-of ) of Windlass' lower end swords doesn't neccasarily mean that the high-end ones are similarly deficient... They could have invested a lot of that extra money into performance aspects, as well as the aesthetics. The normal Windlass heat-treatment is better than decent, so if they stepped it up, who knows? These really could be fantastic swords made by a low-end company trying to forge their way into the high-end market... Just food for thought, I guess. I don't see any actual proof of these Windlass' being overpriced, but that doesn't mean I'd buy one for half that. I don't want it to seem as though I'm supporting Windlass' choice to produce these, but I truly see no need to condemn it either. -Slayer I think our little buddy is growing up! Well spoken Slayer. I'll karma you for your insight. Still I agree with Tsafas last post....Im not buying either. Ive had good experiences with Windlass so far, but when it comes to this kind of $ I'll stick with Albion. At least Iknow what Im getting. But Ill keep an ear to the ground about these...see what kind of rep they get...
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Post by Kilted Cossack on Feb 22, 2009 14:37:43 GMT
tsafa:
Have you tried a qama? Base price is about $40 at KoA, and it has a very "messer-ish" full tang, grip scale and rivet construction. It seems very solid to me . . . but I'm at the stage of "hey it's a real sword now how cool is that?"
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2009 14:53:04 GMT
Sorry to hijack the thread, but the sword of david would be labeled as a Jewish or Hebrew sword. To call a person of Jewish ancestry Islamic or Arab, or vice versa would result result in that person carrying a grudge on you to say the least (making a very vague and general assumption). Back on thread, true maybe the swords are for other markets, although I see them excessively costly. I gripe with the idea of buying a $500 sword, let alone one that is easily 6x that price............
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2009 10:33:40 GMT
.......
King David was dead probably 2,000 years before that sword was made.
Do you honestly think thats David's sword? Impossible.
And yes, it is an Islamic sword. Da'uda is one of the Prophets.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2009 11:08:13 GMT
I never though it was David's sword; however Windlass apparently believes or else has had a mix up/bad historical counseling. And yes, Islam recognize Adam, Noah, Abraham (Ibrahim), Ishmael(Ismail), David (Daud), and Jesus (Isa, who in fact slays Ad-Dahjjal and joins the Mahdi in prayer at the end times) as prophets preceding Muhammad in their holy book (Q'uran). But then again, Windlass fails in exorbitant price tag and historical accuracy issues.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2009 20:03:49 GMT
Those swords look pretty awesome. Anyone got some links or pictures of blades of similar quality/price range/aesthetics? They're clearly more ornate than the average 100-1600 USD swords.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2009 23:18:20 GMT
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