Marc Ridgeway
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"The best cost less when you buy it the first time." - Papabear
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Post by Marc Ridgeway on Feb 6, 2009 17:18:53 GMT
WHAT IS THAT THING!?!?!? (it's pretty sweet, actually!) Uh yeah.... more info
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2009 17:19:15 GMT
That thing looks like a dacian falx, a curved blade with the cutting edge on the inside of the curve and for anyone who might question the effectiveness of such a blade;
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2009 17:31:46 GMT
Dacian Falx, yes. And she's a monster.
I'll get some good cutting videos up one of these days.
I got more photos if anyone want's to see 'em, PM me (Don't wanna muck up this thread).
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on Feb 6, 2009 18:24:44 GMT
Back to sword peens. These pics from Albion show that the stock protruding for peening IS actually about 1/4". So yeah, like I said before. Albion Vassal Falchion: Albion Gallowglass: The Sherriff
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Post by YlliwCir on Feb 6, 2009 18:39:55 GMT
I would have said I prefer peened a year or so ago. Now, it depends.
I like The Atrim style of keyed pommel then tightened with a nut, tho I prefer the older cap type nut to the hex allen wrench type, I know the hex type is easier to tighten but I like the look of the cap type.
I don't care for the screw on pommels.
I still prefer the Albion method of securing the guard and pommel independent of the grip to the compression method.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2009 18:50:07 GMT
When your talking about a 1/4 inch peen I suppose you're right Brenno, Personally I'd rather have a bigger piece of tang going through my pommel than 1/4 inch anyhow.
I've never handled any of Albion's swords, but I'd say those are smaller than I'd be comfortable with.
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Post by randomnobody on Feb 6, 2009 19:15:28 GMT
...uh...Albion makes some of tehe finest, toughest swords currently on the market.
Swords in museums the world over have tangs the same size as these. Antique swords, that saw combat.
The peens and tangs Albion uses are even considered beefy.
If a tang and peen this "small" concerns you, steer clear of swords and stick with maces.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2009 19:31:27 GMT
All I'm saying is I've personally seen several swords where the pommels have sheared off (mostly in liveblade combat exercises) have to be repaired, and when it comes to my personal taste I'd prefer something stockier.
I'm not saying Albion's tangs are inadequate, or even non-historical. All I'm saying is I'd prefer something wider.
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Post by randomnobody on Feb 6, 2009 22:24:09 GMT
Then what you want is known as "overbuilt." Of course, these will have their own problems, grip size and/or taper (ie. comfort) probably the least of which. At any rate, when somthing is used roughly it runs the risk of falure. No amount of extra weight will fix that. But hey, to each their own. If you don't want to trust the standard, let alone the benchmark, that's up to you. Just be prepared for disappointment unless you "know a guy" or are that "guy."
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Post by Jeff K. ( Jak) on Feb 6, 2009 23:41:56 GMT
I might as well chime in too. I prefer peened hands down. I have a few peened swords and there is a HUGE difference between Windlass' and Hanwei's peening job to Albions. I am constantly repeening the lower end ones....the Albion however (the Sovereign, who's blade is identical to the Sherriff that Brendan posted other than the fuller) is still rock solid. Perhaps because they hot peen it.
I dont like screw on pommels at all
As for pommel nuts, Im with Rick. My Windlass German Bastard has a rounded nut that I origionally mistook for a peenblock. Its tightened on and any threads that protruded past the nut were filed/sanded flush. I would much prefer this to an ugly-ass hex nut...but not everyone wants the protruding peen block look....the advantage of a hex nut is the ability to counter sink it into the pommel.
If you could get a cap to securely fit into the hex nut as was already mentioned, that would make it easier on my eyes anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2009 23:48:40 GMT
Then what you want is known as "overbuilt." Of course, these will have their own problems, grip size and/or taper (ie. comfort) probably the least of which. At any rate, when somthing is used roughly it runs the risk of falure. No amount of extra weight will fix that. But hey, to each their own. If you don't want to trust the standard, let alone the benchmark, that's up to you. Just be prepared for disappointment unless you "know a guy" or are that "guy." I do happen to work for that guy, actually. It's got nothing to do with overbuilding anything. The tang section shouldn't taper down to fit trough the pommels. To me this speaks of a lazy bladesmith who doesn't want to properly file his pommels out to fit the tangs. I see a lot of tangs on the market that "taper down" to fit a smaller hole in the pommel, to me this is unacceptable. The way Lutel makes their swords is a good example of this: www.by-the-sword.com/acatalog/images/lt-tang.jpgTo me 'adequate' or 'good enough' simply don't cut it. Like I said, we've repaired swords with pommels that sheared off. Murdering plastic water jugs is one thing, taking something to war is another. I will partially retract my previous statement about Albion's swords. It looked like this was being done on the pictures posted, but looking at them closer it's hard to tell, I'll reserve my judgment on them, in any case, their reputation speaks for itself. Actually, I just found a great article on Albion's page about hot peening, seen below. www.albion-swords.com/swords-functional.htm
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Post by randomnobody on Feb 6, 2009 23:57:46 GMT
Lutel's method, as pictured, is sort of a meeting-halfway kind of thing. I don't like how they slot out the tangs then toss in a rod. Sure, it apparently does the trick, but I'm not so sure about it myself.
As to tapering tangs...they uh...should taper, more often than not, and I'm not really sure what you're getting at otherwise. Are you saying the whole width of the tang, perhaps the same width for its whole length, should be fit through then somehow peened ocer the pommel? This sounds like it might be tougher to break, but I don't know.
A crappy tang is a crappy tang, big or small. But as I'm not certain what you're getting at, I'll just hope you can share some photos of your guy's stuff.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2009 13:19:34 GMT
I prefer peened; but I plan to give the new breed of hex nut a try. I've had fully tightened and epoxied (or loctite) screw-on pommels work loose under actual extended use.
Years back, my test for a new sword was to clear trails, branches and small trees. The threaded pommels usually worked loose after an hour or so; depending on the quality.
But I am fond of customization, and more interested in how a weapon suits me than historical precedence; other than basic style for something of a connection with my ancestors - so I would say a hex nut design will be in my future.
I've always had the school of thought that if we can think of a design variation - so could our ancestors. Who is to say what designs may have come and gone from individual smiths that did not survive to see our museums? Or do we just need to feel that we are the most advanced and cleverest of civilizations in order to muddle through?
Or maybe I just need more coffee, and to not post while still waking up! Ha! Goood morning, Sunshine.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2009 14:52:37 GMT
For customizing, it is simpler with hex nut. But I get my Del Tins customized and it is harder and more time consuming but it's worth it. Good peening doesn't get loose for a very long time and tradition is very important to me. I wouldn't want my sword to be of some new, special metal which was not used for original swords. Same with construction, if it was good enough for warriors through centuries, it's good enough for me. And we all are fascinated with swords and their role in the history. If we improve them with something that wasn't used back then, it's not a thing we were fascinated in the first place anymore. Antique swords are often still tight after many centuries even though their grips are missing and they are badly corroded, so peening should not be considered "not good enough" method. It just has to be done well, just as a hex nut has to be done well to work good. I'm sure there are quite enough people who care about historicalness in their swords. Valiants are now "best buy", they set a new level of quality in our range, and it would be nice if they offered peened version so that we "traditional guys" wouldn't have to modify them after buying. Only company that is available in this range and can match Valiants now is Del Tin and they also have to be sharpened and a bit customized for looks to be able to do that. Valiant signatures are pretty much perfect as they are, and if just they would offer peened version, they would have very complete line that would be best buy for both kind of costumers. Especially when they broaden their offer.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2009 19:15:58 GMT
Many western swords made in the old days had the pommels attached while they were still red-hot. The cooling pommel would contract around the tang and form a super-tight fit. That is why many old-world swords still have tight fittings after so many centuries. I'll restate my point again: Having a hex nut or a threaded pommel may be adequate for collectors and modern use (I.e. going into valiant battle with the dreaded milk-jug army) but it simply isn't as strong as a hot-peened sword. For one thing, the threaded rod doesn't get work-hardened from forging. For another, threads are prone to shear or strip out. The forces encountered in combat are much greater than what the average modern person puts on their swords (unless it's Paul engaging his ancient nemesis the steel oil drum ). Another interesting article on the subject, this one from ARMA: www.thearma.org/spotlight/GTA/motions_and_impacts3.htm
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Post by brotherbanzai on Feb 7, 2009 20:38:24 GMT
I couldn't say with any authority that one is stronger than the other. I would think that either one done well would be pretty close to the other as long as they are both keyed into the tang. A threaded hex nut is nice for customization and cleaning (though I wouldn't think it would be a good idea to take your sword apart and reassemble it a lot. but I don't know.) But it really looks ugly to me on the end of a nice pommel to have the nut sticking out or have a big hole in the pommel with the nut down in there.
Actually I suspect that modern steel, even plain 10xx carbon steel is probably something more advanced than most of the steel available back when swords were being used. If hex nuts turn out to be the bees knees of pommel assembly they'll stick around, if not they'll be relegated to the cheaper makers like screw on pommels are now. I don't think they are going to take over the market and replace peened pommels simply because plenty of people prefer the more historical peening. Seems like there's plenty of variety out there for everyone to get what they like.
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