slav
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Post by slav on Jan 26, 2009 7:50:35 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2009 8:39:36 GMT
Thanks for the link, I like this guide better than most, quick, simple and to the point.
Hybrid polishing is weird though, at least the etching portion, I dislike that it brightens the area in front of the Shinogi. Just isn't a very desirable means of making a hamon prominent.
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slav
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Post by slav on Jan 26, 2009 8:51:16 GMT
Do you mean that you dislike how hybrid+etched hamons are sometimes darker than the shinogi, rahther than being lighter than the shinogi as is seen on Nihonto? Almost reversed... Like this: Rather than this: It kinda depends on the blade. In my experience, 10XX blades usually turn out more like the above pic when etched, whereas alloys such as 5160 actually turn out looking closer to Nihonto in terms of brightness differentiation. Of course, the only way to get a genuine-looking hamon is by polishing it out traditionally with finger stones.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2009 8:54:57 GMT
Well, for example, on my VA1601, it's got that milky white on the shinogi but the hamon and Shinogiji are both flat steel colored. In your picture it looks that way because there's a bohi so you don't have much for contrast, but on my VA1601 and Hanwei Shinto I have, both have a slightly milky coloration to the Shinogi. Just kind of offsets it for me. EDIT basically exactly what you said but here. You can kind of see it here. EDIT better one
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2009 20:11:30 GMT
I'm not quite following you Ken.
The shinogi is a line. Just the ridge. The shinogi ji is the blade flat (top), and the ji is the edge flat (bottom) above the hamon. The hamon you nailed =).
On the bottom picture, it looks like you have a milky white hamon, flat steel colored ji, and a polished (supposed to be burnished, but polished is close enough) shinogi ji. Which part is it that annoys you?
Cris
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2009 22:01:27 GMT
The Ji, cause when you polish the entire blade it looks like the shinogi ji there, but after you hybrid polish it adds a milky white film on the Ji, that's what bothers me.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2009 22:33:10 GMT
The Ji, cause when you polish the entire blade it looks like the shinogi ji there, but after you hybrid polish it adds a milky white film on the Ji, that's what bothers me. Ahh, gotcha. Honestly though...the ji and shinogi ji aren't supposed to look the same...or really even similar. The shinogi ji should be mirror reflective. Literally burnished with a burnishing pen and abrasive. This is traditional. The ji on the other hand should be left in the state the final abrasive left it. Unfortunately for the typical 'hybrid' polish, that's somewhat hazy. That can be adjusted by the specific polisher though. Contrary to popular belief...Japanese togishi DO IN FACT use VARIOUS FORMS of etchants in their polishing. Some natural, some not so natural...all effective and subtle. It's really just a matter of the polisher determining his final desired outcome, then working towards it. A 'hybrid' polish could in fact mimic the 'appearance' of a more traditional polish to a high degree, it's just the ones you've seen didn't. By the way, this information was passed to me (all of it) by a relatively well known polisher friend, and has been quoted in various places by other well known polishers. It's not new information...just relatively unknown. Cris
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Post by brotherbanzai on Jan 27, 2009 0:49:23 GMT
Nice link Slavia. And cool info Cris.
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slav
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Post by slav on Jan 27, 2009 1:46:42 GMT
Good point about the shinogi-ji being mirror reflective. I actually experimented with burnishing the shinogi-ji last night using a hematite stone. It worked out surprisingly well. Well enough that I proceeded to buy a burnishing pen in order to use regularly after a hybrid polish and etch.
I am a big fan of the traditional differential polish between a mirrored shinogi-ji and satin ji. I am confident that I will be able to mimick this effect fairly well using hybrid methods followed by hand-burnishing.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2009 3:50:44 GMT
How do you make an etch like on Hanwei katana? Same process?
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slav
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Post by slav on Jan 27, 2009 3:56:04 GMT
Yes, same process. But you might have to do a little extra hybrid work in order to remove the extra-frosted hamon that comes standard on Hanwei blades. Once it is polished out, you can proceed to continue a regular hybrid polish and then etch out the hamon again yourself. It will be much more normal and natural looking.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2009 3:58:05 GMT
Well I like the frosted look on Hanwei blades, I'm asking how do you make a hamon look like that.
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slav
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Post by slav on Jan 27, 2009 4:07:14 GMT
That is a bit of a mystery to me. I assume that they do a really hard etch. Either by doing many many cycles with a standard etchant, or by using an extra harsh etchant.
You might want to try following the standard etch process but use a very hard etchant such as Muriatic Acid. You must be careful using that stuff though, and heed the cautions on the label.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2009 4:13:10 GMT
Okay, well I'll be making a new tsuka/saya for one of my blades soon so I'll try it then.
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