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Post by enkidu on Jan 8, 2009 5:27:29 GMT
Words are a weapon that you are quite good at handling.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2009 7:31:03 GMT
So I have been told. Then again your quite good with words yourself enkidu...and handled with more wisdom then I ever will .
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Post by shadowhowler on Jan 8, 2009 7:58:14 GMT
Allright already, if you guys are done giving each other a iNtEwEb handjob, can we get back to the fighting and bickering please??? ;D Note: The above statment is intended as a joke, with the hope that bravety and humor will improve the readers mood and make them laugh... please do not take literaly. Damn, now I feel so PC. Ugh.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2009 8:11:06 GMT
Fighting? did I hear fighting? hehe
You know the saying may god give me the strength to change what can be changed, the serenity to accept what can not and the wisdom to tell the difference? Yeah I got plenty of the first...then didn't wait for the other two ;D .
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SlayerofDarkness
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Post by SlayerofDarkness on Jan 8, 2009 18:36:46 GMT
ColdNapalm...you're hopeless...hopelessly funny, that is! I DO think that you are being a bit harsh on Eyal and DSA, but other than that you're pretty cool . lol ;D.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2009 22:04:16 GMT
Heya guys, just wanna clear my bit, Slayer sorry if I offended you man, seriously I like you ......... you were my first ever PM ........ you took my message cherry .............. No I was kinda refering back to another post when you remarked to another new guy to the forum about the quality of DSA and Napalm remarked that you dont own a DSA so how could you know (then again I think advice passed on from observation of Pauls DSA Destructive's is grounds for advice). So it was just a comment on the cub and older wolf scenario ......... I like EVERYONE HERE ............................................................... except Napalm .......................................... *WHACK!!!* ................ OKAY I LIKE HIM .................. he's not as bad as Shooter then ................................ *BAM .... THWACK!!!!!* .............. OH GOD 12g RUBBER ROUNDS!!!! MERCY!!!!!!!!! .................. OKAY your cool ..................... except me ...................... *crack!* ......................................... ........................................... Ahh yeah Shootermike agree repo sabre thingy ..................
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SlayerofDarkness
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"Always give everyone the benefit of the doubt."
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Post by SlayerofDarkness on Jan 8, 2009 22:20:53 GMT
It's cool, mate. We're all friends.
(except maybe ColdNapalm.......THWACK!......Not again...)
lol, it's ok Napalm, we still like you...;D
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2009 4:44:01 GMT
Hello
(I'm hoping that what I'm going to say here will help, not throw oil on the fire...)
Most conflict on the internet are due because of miss-communications. Our language, especially written, is limited, and we aren't all masters of it either.
I think perhaps here the root of the problem is the word "training". I have handled a few DSA armory swords. Would they be good for training? Well... what kind of training do you mean?
If you mean dry drill, cutting exercise, or perhaps even carefully controlled drill vs an opponent, then yes, they would be good for training. If you mean "free sparing vs an opponent", then no they would not be (point, stiffness of blade etc).
Of course, if two people mean different kind of training, and they don't realize, of course an argument will be born...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2009 5:00:45 GMT
Well ARMA is big fan of the free spar. They do drills too, don't get me wrong, but it is a society of free sparring for the most part. And their mantra for utter lack of safety concerns is they have control so it's okay...I obviously don't agree with that.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2009 15:37:27 GMT
About this subject, Since I own Gen2, Albion, and DSA here is what I will say. Yes lots of DSA swords are too over weight. Eyal originally intended for them to be more for stage combat and the slowly moved over to the backyard cutter crowd. However, for thoose you clamoring for Del Tin, many Del Tin single handers are just as heavy if not heavier than a similar DSA sword. Their 12th Century Midevil sword is under 3 but their St. Maurice and their 14th Century XIV sword are both a good bit over 3 pounds. Also, Del Tins are not made to be sharpened and you cannot order them sharp. So if you want it to cut, prepare to buy LOTS of files! Some do make good cutters, others don't. Nothing against Del Tin though. They are used extensively in Europe for renactment and here in the US! They are sturdy and when it comes to the looks department, they are spectacular and look just like the originals but certianly don't handel like them. I handled a smaler verison of the 14th century XIV sword which was pretty good. The owner tried to self sharpen it though and he well didn't do a particularly good job to say! LOL! Still not a bad piece at all, very good quality steel etc but not a cutting sword. Too thick. DSAs aren't the best cutters but at least Eyal will machine sharpen them for you which would give you a great head start. When you get bored later, you can get a few files and work the secondary bevel into the main. Also, most of his swords are peened now. As Eyal himself suggested, buy his XIV sword. I've heard nothing but good things about it. He uses 1060 carbon steel. I've owned some of the ealier blades, a 1340 and 1332. The 1340 I had was way to heavy but the 1332 two handed gothic sword was quite good. The blade profile was a bit wavy and such but considering the price and all, it was a masterpiece! I also had it custom sharpened by Brian and it sliced through just about everything. I saddly sold or traded both away. I still have my Norman dagger. I may still buy their XIV sword though now that is peened. As to Albion, you get what you pay for. Superb quality but you pay for it! I own a Squire like Great Sword and a Yeoman. I love both except my Great Sword is a pain to sharpen. My Yeoman thankfully came as sharp as it needs to be with superior edge strength and cutting power. You will not find a better sword for the money but like I said, you pay for it heavily with your dollars. Also, their customer service is bar none the best I have ever seen! I've sent my Squire sword back once or twice for different issues. Nothing defective etc, my or less my own faults from working on it and have not failed me since. One time to machine sharpen it, another to fix a set it took after I was working on sharpening it. In there defense, I was using a folding table which was not entirely level which is why it took the set. Still, regarldess, all you have to do is mail it to them and they will take care of as long as your request is within the realm of possibility. It's my opinion that, not withstanding the homogeneous steel and outstanding heat treat, most of Albion's Next Gen line and most of Arms&Armor's medieval line... get ready... ARE MUNITIONS GRADE medieval swords, not the cream of the crop. Furthermore, I believe that almost any sub$300 sword, taken through a time machine to 1250-1500 and given to a knight, would be the equivalent of someone handing me a 25th century reproduction of a Ruger P85 (for those of you who are unfamiliar with this ungainly God-awful handgun, substitute anything that is substandard and undesirable) and gauging my reaction. Well made swords made "back in the day" were marvels of ergonomics and quick handling. We only really near them at the high end of production swords today... There is only one thing I will say to this. In terms of hilt construction I am 100% with you. The hilt construction of a lot of reproduction swords today is abominabal. However, the steel today is FAR superior than that was it was back then because it much more pure and of far greater quailty. The same applys to heat treating. Come on Mike, I know you read a lot of myarmoury. Most of the original midieval swords had HRC ratings in the mid 40s while today most are in the low to high 50s. Nothing against our ancestors, they did the best with what technology was available at the time and for the most part, they did a superb job. The two things though that modern repos need to do better, to be up to par with the originals of course, more metal has to be removed, more grinding to get a thinner lighter profile and stronger beefier peened tangs! Thoose are the two main problems most repo swords have. Once thoose are out ot the way, you can make a far better sword today than what they had way back in the 9th to 16th centuries.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2009 18:03:00 GMT
Durability of the blade is not just hardness or purity of the steel. And while consistency of our days heat treat is better, best swordsmiths from Celtic times to 16th or 17th century knew how to heat treat a sword to have best durability. Our definition of durability is not the same as medieval warrior's definition. He would prefer blade that would be softer and will bend easier but will not fail catastrophically - break in half. Tough blades are usually durable for a long time and then unexpectedly break. Warrior wouldn't like that. He would not mind straightening a bent sword or removing nicks after battle. Sword that is slightly bent and nicked in battle is still usable, but if a sword fails suddenly and completely, it is the worst thing to happen to you in the middle of a fight.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2009 20:47:21 GMT
Well steve, the thing is that while a del tin and a DSA may have similar weight, the del tin will MOVE better still. Kinda like how my gen 2 black price is lighter with a closer PoB then my albion crecy...but the albion just moves so much better that it isn't even funny. I mean, yes the base stats do give you a pretty good picture. The over weighted del tin won't be as nice as my albion...or hell even my gen 2, but when compared to DSA you definately can tell that the del tins are better made swords. Course considering that del tins cost like 100 bucks more, one should expect a better sword out of them.
Luka, I agree with you there. A very hard steel is actually kind of a bad thing on campaign for the hard fighting man. Not only on the issue of blade failure but also maintance. A very hard sword is one that can't be easily taken care of in campaign. Yeah we have these new fangled diamond stones and files and a lot of stuff to make our life easier. In campaign you didn't. Not only that but from my classes at UC berkeley's archeology lab, I don't think the historical steel and heat tempering really was that inferior to modern techniques. Yes it has more variance then modern techniques for sure...but I don't think the modern HT will be considered godly to them. I mean what we do in modern times is within what they did back then. The consistency of what we do now might be looked upon with envy...but certainly not the quaility.
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Post by septofclansinclair on Jan 10, 2009 20:56:43 GMT
The consistency of what we do now might be looked upon with envy...but certainly not the quaility. Hmm... that's a very good point. +1 Cold Napalm, for making me think.
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Post by kidcasanova on Jan 10, 2009 20:57:45 GMT
I'll agree with the sentiments Cold's said here so far. Comparing a single stat of each sword doesn't mean much, it's the overall picture of the sword that matters. A sword that weighs 2.6lbs with a POB of 7" and isn't harmonically balanced is not going to feel as good in the hand as a sword of similar type that weighs 3lbs with a POB of 4" and IS harmonically balanced. At the same time, the lighter sword with a stiff blade would feel better than the heavier one with a whippy blade. Small things like that drastically change the overall feel of the sword.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2009 0:53:00 GMT
For the Del Tins, they are a bit heavy, but some are actually meant to be that way because the originals were. My St. Maurice is 1.42kg (3lb 2 or 3oz) and 2142 is 1.75kg. Original St. Maurice is long and heavy sword with PoB well toward the tip. But it isn't a bad sword, it is a specialized sword, it is not typical sword with typical weight. And 2142 is close to average weight of a warsword of that length (122cm). And they both are great when in movement. Such swords can not be valuated outside the context. These are mighty warswords of their time, made for devastating cuts against unarmored opponents and for heavy blunt force trauma against mail armored opponents. Most of their viking swords are just too heavy without excuse. Their type XIV is over 3lb but is very well balanced and I really wouldn't call it point heavy sword. It could be lighter but it is just fine the way it is. And you must also consider that Del Tins are similar to Darkswords a middle way between cutters and stage combat swords, they work well sharpened but not as well as real sharpes and they are not really thick enough to be real blunts. But they can be ordered with thicker edges for that, and are quite satisfying cutters if sharpened properly.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2009 0:56:00 GMT
Luka, I agree with you there. A very hard steel is actually kind of a bad thing on campaign for the hard fighting man. Not only on the issue of blade failure but also maintance. A very hard sword is one that can't be easily taken care of in campaign. Yeah we have these new fangled diamond stones and files and a lot of stuff to make our life easier. In campaign you didn't. Not only that but from my classes at UC berkeley's archeology lab, I don't think the historical steel and heat tempering really was that inferior to modern techniques. Yes it has more variance then modern techniques for sure...but I don't think the modern HT will be considered godly to them. I mean what we do in modern times is within what they did back then. The consistency of what we do now might be looked upon with envy...but certainly not the quaility.[/quote]
Good point about sharpening on a campaign, I didn't think of that one.
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Post by shadowhowler on Jan 12, 2009 19:20:27 GMT
^ WTF?!? Luka agree's with... Luka? Or Cold Napalm? Or are Luka and Cold Napalm really one in the same?!? Like Clark Kent and Superman, has anyone ever really seen the two of them together? Hmmm.
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Post by kidcasanova on Jan 12, 2009 19:25:58 GMT
Haha, no, Luka messed up the quote tag.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2009 21:23:29 GMT
^ WTF?!? Luka agree's with... Luka? Or Cold Napalm? Or are Luka and Cold Napalm really one in the same?!? Like Clark Kent and Superman, has anyone ever really seen the two of them together? Hmmm. Lol. I did something wrong with quoting.
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Post by shadowhowler on Jan 13, 2009 3:03:04 GMT
Ah, very well. Thats not nearly as exciting and interesting as MY theory tho... but I guess it will have to do.
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