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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2008 0:34:51 GMT
Which would you say is the better cutter, any given Angus Trim longsword or one of the new Hanwei Tinker Pierce longswords with the upgraded edge geometry? I know that even with the upgrade that the atrim will run about 100-200 dollars more expensive than the Tinker, but even so which would you say has the best edge geometry, cutting ability, durability, handling etc... Even if the Angus Trim is considerably more expensive, is there anyone here who knows if the price difference is well justified? I'm not looking for a beater necessarily, but an excellent cutter with proper handling and geometry that is very functional and durable. Both of these swords seems to fit that bill well, but I was just curious as to whether the Angus Trim was truly superior to the Hanwei/Tinker, as the price difference would suggest. Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks
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Post by ShooterMike on Dec 27, 2008 0:47:59 GMT
In my opinion, and that's all it is, a good cut-oriented ATrim longsword will out-cut the Hanwei Tinker longsword by a substantial margin. That's because the ATrim swords are usually designed to be much more biased toward performance in the cut. The Tinker-designed longsword Hanwei is making is much more thrust-oriented. It will cut, but nowhere near as well as a good Atrim sword that's purpose-built to cut.
But remember, saying a "generic ATrim longsword" is like saying a "generic 20th century car." Gus' designs are many and quite varied. And the performance characteristics between them all varies drastically.
If you have a particular ATrim model in mind, maybe I could offer a better comparison?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2008 1:28:21 GMT
Sorry for being so vague, how about the "Longsword - Tinker Pearce Sharp" verses the "Type XII - Flared shoulders" by angus trim. Also, I misspoke when I said cutting ability , I didn't just mean cutting, but cutting, thrusting, handling...general functionality of all kinds. Thanks
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Post by enkidu on Dec 27, 2008 1:30:56 GMT
I have an ATMMXIII and i had the chance today to handle ( but unfortunatly not to cut ) with a Tinker longsword and they both exhibit the same easy flowing feeling you look for in a good balance and well made sword. Sure they arent of the same type and the ATMMXIII IMO ( some would surely disagree ) looks a thousand times better but from what i saw of the Tinker blade and handling i can bet it would cut any given target with ease, but given the choice Angus would still get my vote.
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Post by ShooterMike on Dec 27, 2008 1:57:13 GMT
I haven't handled the Maker's Mark Type XII flared shoulders yet, though I'm having one made now. But that's a single handed arming sword. Were you referring to the Type XIIa flared shoulders longsword? If so, I haven't handled that one either though from the stats it looks like it will be very quick and a good cutter.
enkidu, which Maker's Mark Type XIII, the flared shoulders single fuller or the triple fuller hand-&-a-half? Those two are about as opposite as night and day. I have both and love them both, but for very different reasons.
Bottom line, none of these compares to the Tinker Hanwei. The performance characteristics are waaayyy different. I think of the Tinker as more of a "two-handed rapier" type longsword that will pierce leather, textile, maille and maybe even light and thin plate armor. The Maker's Mark Type XIIa and XIII longswords are more "cut 'em in half" longswords that can thrust too, but not through very much protection.
A more direct apples-to-apples comparison might be the Hanwei Tinker longsword compared to the ATrim Legacy Line AT1430 Italian Longsword.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2008 2:15:22 GMT
Since type XII swords are more cut oriented then type XVIII, those will perform better for cutting in general. Given that atrim swords are good swords, an atrim type XII will cut very well. So yes the atrim will be the better cutter . That's not to say that the hanwei tinker lines are a bad sword, but they are a more balanced cut and thrust design.
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Post by enkidu on Dec 27, 2008 2:31:48 GMT
I should have specified, the 3 fullers one ( Ego Memor on CF's site ), sure they are quite different models ! Which hasnt anything to do with the type represented by the tinker two handed by the way I was just giving a quick impression based on the handling i made today and before i saw Gabe's reply about the type XII .
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2008 5:57:28 GMT
Sorry, I don't know that much about all of the different roman numeral designations, I was basically just wondering about the general performance quality of Atrims verses Tinker/Hanwei swords. Would you say the extra cost is definitely worth it on the atrims? Are they typically the best performers in the western swords production market?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2008 6:23:59 GMT
Okay so comparing a type XVIIIa atrim vs the hanwei is basically what you are looking for . While I have had some atrims go through my grubby hands and a few tinker swords as well, I haven't seen the new tinker line hanwei so I couldn't really give you a comparison. However, remember that the hanwei tinker line only has cut and thrust variants for their longswords while an atrim can be had in just about style you may want. If your interested in cutting only, then the hanwei would be a bad choice no matter how good the sword was compared to a type XIII atrim longsword.
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Post by shadowhowler on Dec 27, 2008 7:03:00 GMT
I would think comparing the true Atrim swords to Tinker/Hanwei would not be a fair comparasion... perhaps comparing the VA Practical Atrim swords to the Tinker/Hanwei swords would be a better deal. After all, both are production weapons made from the specs of a custom weapon and manufactured to be as close to the 'real' thing as possible.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2008 8:28:59 GMT
heres a question.... (not to hijack the thread but I think it relates) between the VA Pract. atrim longsword and and the Tinker hanwei longsword, which is better balanced, and or suited, for the german/italian WMA fencing. (OK I know that in the fencing you would naturally use blunts so lets call it combat)?
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Post by ShooterMike on Dec 27, 2008 10:37:59 GMT
I have two VA Practical longswords that Gus reground. One is a fairly light specimen, one is a fairly heavy specimen. They are both very good cutters. I would rate them at being about 80% as good as the AT1415 they were based on. Maybe just a little more. That is to say, they are very good performing swords. As cutting swords, they far surpass the Hanwei Tinker longsword.
I also have a Hanwei Tinker longsword with the edges reworked to slice paper. So it is fairly close to the ones Tinker sells as "enhanced" versions. (it's going to Tinker next week after the crazy holiday shipping rush).
For an unarmored duel, especially if I preferred the Italian style of fencing... The Tinker would be my choice of the three, hands down, no contest.
However, if all the ATrim line were available, the AT1506 would be chosen by a wide margin as it cuts sooo much better, handles a bit better, and still has the fine point control of the Tinker-designed sword.
Those are my opinions. But they are based mostly on personal preference, mixed with just a little bit of experience with all the swords mentioned. I would really like to use them all a lot more to have a totally valid opinion. In the end, it's really just personal preference, as they are all good swords. You would be well served with any one of them.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2008 18:46:47 GMT
Cool, thanks a lot for the help everyone. I have one more question and I think it kind of veers off topic, but whatever; What do you guys think of the atrim leafblade? It looks pretty cool and I'm sure it's well-made otherwise gus wouldn't offer it, but what kind of performance abilities would you say it possesses? Is it more of a dedicated thruster?
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Post by YlliwCir on Dec 27, 2008 23:14:16 GMT
I don't have any Atrim leaf blades, however I do have a few other brands of leaf blades. All are most definitely good cutters, tho they thrust well also. I think the shape lends itself to excel in the cut. Just my opinion and experience with the ones I have.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2008 23:14:58 GMT
With a PoB out at 5.5 inches for a one hander...certainly NOT a dedicated thruster. The point control would be horrible. I would classify most leaf blades as dedicated cutters actually. All that weight at the tip makes for some wonderful cutting.
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