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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2008 21:20:58 GMT
I understand that some swords have more elaborate guards than others, and fencing swords particularly need more steel, but I've seen a lot of loops on slashers and hacking swords and wondered if there was a practical reason for a loop beyond the obvious hand guard. Is there? Examples
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Post by ShooterMike on Nov 20, 2008 21:37:40 GMT
Good question.
As far as I know or have been able to ascertain, it's all about hand protection. Guards with rings began to evolve in the later medieval period. German longsword training deals with several maneuvers of winding and movements from the bind that make guards with side rings advantageous.
I have no solid foundation to know about the development of these hilts, but I'd love to hear about it. I will follow this thread with interest.
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Marc Ridgeway
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Post by Marc Ridgeway on Nov 20, 2008 21:42:58 GMT
Being a JSA guy, I know little of the subject... but I'll definitely run my mouth The way I understand it guards became more complex as armour fell more out of favor... as the gauntlent went out , the complex hilt came in... The guard in the picture is a German style no?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2008 22:34:03 GMT
The Swiss & German were kind of the one's that started defining and refining complex hilts. In E. Oakeshott's book " European Weapons and Armour - from the Renaissance to the Industrial Revolution" gives a great detailed time-line of the forming and progression of hilts. And yes Mike is right on target, as the true nature of these is for increased hand protection. There are so many different styles & variances it would be much to go into grand detail. Is there a specific type your interested in or just a general inquiry to the purpose? Cheers, Bill ps ( I'm a total obsessive fanatic about mortuary hilts and have a real weakness for double ring guards as well) Just some of my collection with complex hilts...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2008 22:48:03 GMT
It is a German sword, btw.
My question comes from my weighing which sword to get. The 15th Century Longsword by Windlass looks cool but the Verneuil Hand and a Half Sword got such a good review I keep coming back to it. The different guards made me pause.
Also I'm looking at Cold Steel's Grosse Messer (another German Sword with a ring on the guard).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2008 23:15:54 GMT
It is a German sword, btw. My question comes from my weighing which sword to get. The 15th Century Longsword by Windlass looks cool but the Verneuil Hand and a Half Sword got such a good review I keep coming back to it. The different guards made me pause. . I own both and like them both very much...tough choice between the two. cheers, Bill
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2008 0:03:18 GMT
Is there an issue with "whippiness" with either of those Windlass swords?
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Post by brotherbanzai on Nov 21, 2008 0:29:26 GMT
The dual rings on the same side (first pic) would give you better protection when you have your thumb on the flat of the blade, but since it only has the rings on one side it leaves your fingers more exposed than the Windlass in the second pic. I recently added a ring to my hdpe waster and find that it does a very nice job of protecting my hand in the bind. For me a second ring on one side would be less useful than a ring on each side. Having one side without any rings might make it easier to wear on a sword belt though.
I have the 15th century and though I like the feel of it in general (and love how it looks), it's a bit whippy and the grip is a bit too short for me. I don't know anything about the verneuil other than what it looks like. It has a very attractive hilt and the blade probably feels lighter than the 15th century due to the greater taper. It will be a little quicker to move around if that's the case but will have less blade presence when cutting. Being a windlass it's also probably a bit whippy.
If you're going to fight with a sword I would recommend one with rings, If your going to cut with it only, it probably doesn't make any difference.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2008 12:43:59 GMT
Personally, I think there is too much gob about the "whippiness" of some Windlass blades. The flex on my Verneuil is (as mentioned in the review on the main page) , to me, is spot on. Yes, the 15thc longsword had more flex to it, but is not as horrible as some make it out. I posted a video some time back of a lad in AUS who actually uses one to spar with. He ground the tip and edges and lengthened the grip a little and said it held up quite well against some of the "big boys" in the blunt trainer market. Also said he had no troubles from it as far as falling aprt or anything.
If you look at some original swords, Scottish basket-hilts in particular, they were / are extremely flexible. Of course, the Scots were not your thrusting favorablr sort of lot (rather hackers).
With my two, the Verneuil is a beast in the cutting dept....the 15thc longsword isn't bad, I just haven't had the chance to tweek the edge on it. Thrusting with but is not a problem either.
I would love to have a blunt trainer with double ring guards at some point..the advantages in longsword training / sparing are keen compared to a standard cruciform hilt.
sorry to ramble......it's early for most..I'm at work killing time (I work from 6:30 am to 5pm M-F) so I ease up on Friday's.
Cheers,
Bill
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2008 2:47:40 GMT
well beyond the obvious hand protection of the horizontal rings the Annulet(s)(vertical rings) you see on some swords are put there to aid in protection ones fingers from injury when the swordsman wishes to do what is know as "fingering the blade"(I think that's what its called), which is simply placing the index finger of the sword hand over top of the main guard which improves the swordsman's speed and control of the blade, which is quite useful when using a cut and thrust sword against a generally more nimble blade like a rapier.
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