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Post by ryo on Apr 4, 2023 7:53:52 GMT
Hey, I have a German 1889 infantry saber. The guard is a bit loose and was wondering how to tighten it. Obviously I couldn't just smack the peen if I wanted to, as the end of the pommel has a flat cap on it.
Any tips would be great!
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Post by mrbadexample on Apr 4, 2023 12:26:09 GMT
Which way is it moving? Side to side, or have you lost compression due to grip shrinkage? If it’s the latter, there are others who probably have better ideas of how to work with the particular construction of that model. If it’s the former, you might consider a few, carefully applied drops of runny super glue like liquid Loctite. I believe Pgandy has had success with it.
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Post by ryo on Apr 4, 2023 17:05:49 GMT
I can slightly rotate the handle left to right
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Post by larason2 on Apr 4, 2023 17:55:18 GMT
You can try small amounts of thinned out hide glue as well. Hide glue is more reversible than cyanoacrylate or epoxy.
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Post by ryo on Apr 4, 2023 18:40:46 GMT
Where do I apply the glue specifically?
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Post by larason2 on Apr 5, 2023 0:09:02 GMT
Probably the wood has shrunk, as suggested. It's a tricky one, you're actually probably moving the wood with the wrap inside between the brass endcap and the top of the guard. If it was me, I'd run a small amount of runny hide glue first in the end cap wherever you see an opening, then give it 24 hours to cure. Just let it sit with the blade pointing up in a corner somewhere. If that doesn't work, repeat the procedure until you've filled the end cap. It will be trickier with the guard side, so hopefully you can solidify it from the cap. If any drips on the rest of the sword, just rub it with warm water until it comes off. Hide glue has to be dissolved in water, and kept warm, say with a water bath on a hot plate below boiling. Use sword oil on the blade and renaissance wax on the guard before and after to preserve them in case there's a drip.
You could also try the same with superglue, but rewrapping with the same cord is going to be a nightmare later. With hide glue, you can just soak or rub the glue off the old cord. The superglue will harden the wrap and make its coils stick together, and stick the end plate on. Acetone or rubbing alcohol can remove super glue, but they might damage the colour of the wrap.
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Post by ryo on Apr 5, 2023 9:07:50 GMT
Thanks for all the help!
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Post by mrbadexample on Apr 5, 2023 13:05:40 GMT
Alternatively, you could run a trickle of glue into the space between the guard and the blade (even well fitted swords will often have a small gap there). That could arrest the movement without getting glue on potentially visible parts of the assembly. Put some painters tape around the juncture of the grip and guard to keep the glue from coming out where you don’t want it.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Apr 5, 2023 14:09:42 GMT
I’ve had good luck with Loctite 242 in tightening the hilt on peened swords. It has a low surface tension that allows it to flow easily into the smallest spaces. It’s actually designed to get between the threads on nuts and bolts. I would recommend setting the sword tip up and putting the Loctite between the guard and blade. It will run in freely and possibly out of any convenient cracks or gaps so have paper towels at the ready. It easily wipes away, unlike CA glue or epoxy and sets invisibly in about 20 minutes. That should do it, if not try again possibly between the guard and grip with sword horizontal. If you cannot find it locally try Amazon. www.amazon.com/s?k=loctite+blue&crid=3CRM869FM2ZWK&sprefix=loctite%2Caps%2C161&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_3_7
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Post by ryo on Apr 12, 2023 17:38:41 GMT
Random question, if I ever needed to take the hilt apart for some reason how would I do so?
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Post by larason2 on Apr 12, 2023 18:43:33 GMT
I'm not super familiar with the sword, but it depends how it was assembled. My guess is that the end cap was peened on. If this is the case, you have to carefully grind the peen off. If it's a one piece guard, you'll have to bend the cap out of the way to get the wood out. If it's a two piece cap, then the cap will come off, and you'll see the spot where the rest of the guard slots in. If you used the hide glue like I said, you should be able to get the wood off the remaining tang with some steam, rubbing with warm water, or some try methyl hydrate. Just keep workinng away at it until the glue gels, loosens, or dissolves, then you should be able to get it off.
If you used the loctite or epoxy, good luck getting the handle off! You'll probably have to cut the existing handle wood off. If you take your time and you work at it, you might be able to get the handle wrap off with some acetone.
There's no need to dissassemble it unless you want to replace the wood of the grip. The idea with the epoxy is to do it only if you think you'll never have to do that, because sometimes getting the wood off the metal after that is a nightmare.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Apr 12, 2023 19:55:01 GMT
Larason gave a over view of what’s involved. You will first have to remove the peen. I suggest a file and padded vice for this. Some swords have a peen block and it sounds like yours does. If so it will only be one more item to worry about, the procedure is the same. Once the flare in the tang has been remove theoretically all the hilt components should simply slide off. However, rust may be encountered, especially with a steel hilt resulting in some parts possibly needing encouragement to come off. Then comes the issue of getting everything back together. Remember, the tang is shorter now than before you started.
If someone has tried a fix using Loctite or epoxy that’s another issue. Many times, heat will soften these sufficiently to work things loose. I would not suggest that you use your sword as a learning project and consult a professional. Of course, it’s possible to chuck the thing up in a padded vice with a torch and bang away on the peen as is. If you don’t feel comfortable in doing that I most sincerely suggest not attempting to disassemble. Remember after doing so you have a tang shorter than when you started which will have to be corrected.
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Post by ryo on Apr 12, 2023 22:08:04 GMT
I only asked I noticed the wood beneath the leather is in rather poor shape from what I can see from a few spots where the leather has worn away in a few spots.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Apr 12, 2023 22:23:46 GMT
Keep all of the leather treated with a leather conditioner. Least it will continue to dry out and deteriorate.
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Post by ryo on Apr 12, 2023 22:26:37 GMT
Also, I understand how to remove the peen, but not the cap that hides it, it appears to be pressed or glued into place.
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Post by ryo on Apr 12, 2023 22:38:41 GMT
Sorry, I'm probably annoying everyone. I'm just wondering if I could take it to where I could fix the wood and redo the leather wrap and wire wrap, though I'm guessing everyone will say that's impossible without full disassembly,which I probably wouldn't do.
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Post by ryo on Apr 12, 2023 23:32:30 GMT
You guys have convinced me. I'm just gonna do nothing to it.
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Post by mrstabby on May 4, 2023 9:54:49 GMT
Sorry, I'm probably annoying everyone. I'm just wondering if I could take it to where I could fix the wood and redo the leather wrap and wire wrap, though I'm guessing everyone will say that's impossible without full disassembly,which I probably wouldn't do. You could try making 2 halves of the handle and gluing them together on the tang, but depending on the glue it might not be stable and shaping the handle will be a pain. I have used super glue to fix rattles and moving guards on smaller swords, but its dangerous since it gets everywhere. Be prepared for it to drip from places you dont expect. It also damages leather and other organic materials, so.... But unlike epoxy it will go even into small cracks. You could try shimming it with small pieces of wood and then fixate this with glue. You can put small hypodermic needles on the tip of most superglue tubes if you need more control over the application.
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