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Post by arnhembobby on Jan 23, 2023 10:52:49 GMT
Hello there Ladies & Gents, I need to make contact with someone who knows what they're talking about when it comes to Prussian sabres of the early 1800. In 1967 I bought this sabre from a scrap yard in Croydon, South London.I went there looking for a set of Mini hub caps and came home with this!! It is in remarkably good solid condition, both blade, scabbard, hilt, leather grip, etc. I believe it to be an 1811 Blucher Sabre having done a fair bit of on line research and in various books I have over the years. However, I am stumped when it comes to identifying the regiment or unit the soldier was attached to and I am hoping someone on this forum can help with a positive ID. On the cross piece is stamped 5.A.F.H.M. 3. 22. The letter 'H' is in a different font and very ornate compared with the other letters and numbers.
Also scribed out on the scabbard are the markings - T. 5. 344. and below that is 5.A.F.H.M. 3. 22. and below that scribed out is what looks like - maybe 9. T. D. 23 ( or maybe 25 )
I have found what I think has been stamped 619P on the upper ring band. It's pretty rough but just legible. Also on the cross piece of the knuckle bow is what looks like 619P. The best example of the 619 stamp is on the shoulder of the blade up by the hilt. There is stamped on top of the quillion the royal cypher which is also stamped on the two virtually 'mint' slithers of wood inside the scabbard. I have several more photo's of mainly the blade and scabbard which I can upload if required. I am also looking at trying to establish what sort of value one could put on it in today's market. So there you have. Fill your boots and looking forward to see what comes back. Great forum by the way, superb. I also have a British light cavalry sword and a Japanese sword which has been identified as signed by Hiromitsu and dated 1943. But they will be for another day. All the best for now take care |
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jan 23, 2023 11:08:55 GMT
Hi, and welcome to the forum!
You 'd better post this in the Renaissance and Military Weapons section, the experts there may fail to see it here in the Beginners Forum section.
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Post by arnhembobby on Jan 23, 2023 15:57:23 GMT
Ah gotchya, Thanks a bunch.
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Uhlan
Member
Posts: 3,089
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Post by Uhlan on Jan 25, 2023 10:22:07 GMT
I would have gone for the hubcaps..(lol) Great find. M1811 Blücher alright that went the usual route through the system, down from Cavalry to Artillery and then Train if I'm correct. It looks like the first and oldest marks are under a lot of rust and probably crossed out. Last ,,conversion'' took place under Wilhelm II it looks like. We have a lot of info on the subject spread over a number of threads and I am sure, if Pino is still active, he could help you out in a more direct way, but me, I would post the sabre on www.deutsches-blankwaffenforum.de/index.php?s=f29d9b2ab2989ff6dc549e93a5404b18 My knowledge about Blücher markings is a getting a bit feeble to say the least. Old fart. Stuff sinks into the mist if not repeated often. Think the H was depicting the sort of calibre or gun unit it was used by. See what I mean? Better go to DB. They are the fanatics. They have the best info for sure. An entire section devoted to this sabre, with more stuff than you'll ever find anywhere else. Also Zietenhusaren :: www.zietenhusar.wg.am/blankwaffen/ has a great section about the Blücher. And Matt Easton did a nice video here: Hopes this helps you out a bit. Cheers. Edit:: There may be more stamps on the drag of the scabbard. There were on mine. Also, I just remembered I did a post on mine. Maybe this helps a bit too: sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/58831/prussian-m1811-light-cavalry-sabresDang! I am forgetting about my own posts now. |
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Post by arnhembobby on Jan 25, 2023 15:58:06 GMT
Hi there, thanks for the info. and thoughts.
I have registered with the German deutsches-blankwaffenforum but have been unable to suss out how to actually enter a question/item!! Probably me but it doesn't appear to be the most user friendly site. I shall keep trying.
I'm going to keep researching and looking up stuff.
Thanks again for your reply, appreciated.
Take care,
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Post by pellius on Jan 25, 2023 16:17:51 GMT
Greetings and welcome to the forum. I’m just an enthusiast. Pino also posted an article here: sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/54497/blucher-sabre-spawns-1811-1939“On the cross piece is stamped 5.A.F.H.M. 3. 22.” Based on identified markings on Pino’s items, I would speculate the stamp might indicate something like (the German equivalent of) Field Artillery regiment 5, 3rd battery, Munition number 22 Dunno about the H, though. If related to caliber as Uhlan suggested, it would make sense in this context. Again, just a guess. Anyway, thanks for sharing, and good hunting! |
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Uhlan
Member
Posts: 3,089
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Post by Uhlan on Jan 26, 2023 8:23:17 GMT
Go to DB Startseite (Homepage).
Scroll down to ,,Blankwaffen Deutschland bis 1918'' on the left.
Scroll a little further down until you see ,, Blüchersäbel '' in the list.
Click on this link or choose one of the sections :: Unterforen: deutsche Fertigung & Nutzung, englische Fertigung für Deutschland, englisch-deutsche Mischfertigung, deutsche Fertigung für Export.
This way you can choose the section you need.
Opening a Question thread: Sign in (to the right on top of the Homepage) and scroll down to section ,,Fragenbereich''.
Here you see ,, Fragen zu Stempel und Signaturen jeder Art '' and click this link.
Here you can either open a new thread (button to the right) or first go through what is already posted there.
The latter is what DB wants you to do, so they do not have to spend time and energy answering questions that were already answered.
If you paste the url of the above link ,,Fragen zu Stempel etc'' in Google translate you should get all the stuff in this section in any (sort of) language you want. You could do this for the entire site to by pasting the Homepage link into Google, but sometimes it just does not want to translate the entire site. Better to use Google by pasting sections you want to be at.
They can be quite strickt and stern over there.
They really want you to do the work yourself and only ask questions when you really need to.
So you have a lot of reading to do.
Enjoy!
Cheers.
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Post by Pino on Jan 26, 2023 14:07:39 GMT
Fear not plebs, help is at hand.
5.A.F.H.M. 3. 22:
5.A.F: 5th Foot Artillery Regt
H (italic): Handwerker - workman detachment
M: munitionskolonne (Mortar) - munitions column
22: weapon no 22
In sum: sword no 22 of the Workman detachment of the Mortar ammo column under 5th (foot) artillery regt.
619P is for the artillery depot number no 619 (located in Posen).
T.5.344 (or 311): HQ of the Train-Battalion no 5, weapon 344
9.P.D or 9.T.D I can't read well enough to read it clear. It could be:
9.T.D.23: pferd Depot (horse Depot) of 9th Train-Battalion, weapon no 23
Perhaps you'd be interested in knowing a bit more about the 1811 in this video:
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Post by pellius on Jan 26, 2023 15:29:41 GMT
Outstanding!
Thank you sir!
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pgandy
Moderator
Senior Forumite
Posts: 9,519
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Post by pgandy on Jan 26, 2023 17:31:59 GMT
I was hoping that Pino would chime in and he did so far more than I was expecting. Thanks Pino.
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Post by Pino on Jan 26, 2023 22:08:29 GMT
It's always my pleasure guys!
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Uhlan
Member
Posts: 3,089
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Post by Uhlan on Jan 28, 2023 0:20:33 GMT
Thanks Pino.
Still, the OP should sort out DB because there is very much to learn about the M1811 over there.
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Things have changed!