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Post by squalembrato on Jan 17, 2023 0:27:12 GMT
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Post by treeslicer on Jan 17, 2023 6:25:42 GMT
Does anyone have a clue as to who or what this tang mark refers to? It's on my Pillin proof slug Pattern of 1828 Highland Officers Broadsword badged to the Royal Scots Fusiliers. It has a Weyersberg kings head stamp also. Not off the top of my head, but I can tell you that the knight's head alone tells us that the Wilkinson firm's published complaints that their competitors were selling Solingen swords (with German tang markings hidden under the grip) as British, were justified.
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Post by squalembrato on Jan 17, 2023 16:26:46 GMT
Does anyone have a clue as to who or what this tang mark refers to? It's on my Pillin proof slug Pattern of 1828 Highland Officers Broadsword badged to the Royal Scots Fusiliers. It has a Weyersberg kings head stamp also. Not off the top of my head, but I can tell you that the knight's head alone tells us that the Wilkinson firm's published complaints that their competitors were selling Solingen swords (with German tang markings hidden under the grip) as British, were justified. Wilkinson ALSO was using Solingen blades from Weyersberg according to some sources. There were Parliamentary debates concerning bayonet failures in Egypt and saber failures in the Sudan wherein it was disclosed that Wilkinson had purchased blade making machines (rollers, presses etc.) from Weyersberg and had brought to London German workers to operate them and supposedly to train the Wilkinson British employees. However the Germans apparently could not speak English so no training was done. Also to fill government contracts for bayonets Wilkinson was basically smuggling in crates (in violation of British tariff and importation laws) of them made by Weyersberg and re-stamped as Wilkinson. There is also some indication in the records of the present WKC Stahl Solingen that their Weyersberg parent company had on-going relations with Wilkinson loaning money, filling contract orders beyond Wilkinson's capacity etc. It is rare for collectors of Wilkinson sabers (or Pillins or Thurkles) to completely disassemble them to view any tang marks (as such would require grinding off a peen). On the Scots pattern 1828 basket hilt the sword is easily disassembled by unscrewing the pommel nut. It should also be noted that the Weyersberg kings head trademark on the tang is VERY small and requires a magnifying glass or jewelers' loupe to see. At a glance it might be mistaken for a rust pit. It would easily be obscured by rust or caked on oxidized grease on the tang of a Wilkinson if someone did expose a saber's tang. I am unable to get better photos of the Weyersberg trademark on my P1828 with my poor equipment.
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Post by treeslicer on Jan 17, 2023 23:38:55 GMT
Not off the top of my head, but I can tell you that the knight's head alone tells us that the Wilkinson firm's published complaints that their competitors were selling Solingen swords (with German tang markings hidden under the grip) as British, were justified. Wilkinson ALSO was using Solingen blades from Weyersberg according to some sources. There were Parliamentary debates concerning bayonet failures in Egypt and saber failures in the Sudan wherein it was disclosed that Wilkinson had purchased blade making machines (rollers, presses etc.) from Weyersberg and had brought to London German workers to operate them and supposedly to train the Wilkinson British employees. However the Germans apparently could not speak English so no training was done. Also to fill government contracts for bayonets Wilkinson was basically smuggling in crates (in violation of British tariff and importation laws) of them made by Weyersberg and re-stamped as Wilkinson. There is also some indication in the records of the present WKC Stahl Solingen that their Weyersberg parent company had on-going relations with Wilkinson loaning money, filling contract orders beyond Wilkinson's capacity etc. It is rare for collectors of Wilkinson sabers (or Pillins or Thurkles) to completely disassemble them to view any tang marks (as such would require grinding off a peen). On the Scots pattern 1828 basket hilt the sword is easily disassembled by unscrewing the pommel nut. It should also be noted that the Weyersberg kings head trademark on the tang is VERY small and requires a magnifying glass or jewelers' loupe to see. At a glance it might be mistaken for a rust pit. It would easily be obscured by rust or caked on oxidized grease on the tang of a Wilkinson if someone did expose a saber's tang. I am unable to get better photos of the Weyersberg trademark on my P1828 with my poor equipmen Please share your source for this. None of it surprises me. I have a B. Thurkle 1822P/45 LC that I believe to be by E. & F. Hörster Co., of Solingen. sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/65383/1821p-pattern-canadian-militia-artillery
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Post by squalembrato on Jan 18, 2023 0:28:15 GMT
Wilkinson ALSO was using Solingen blades from Weyersberg according to some sources. There were Parliamentary debates concerning bayonet failures in Egypt and saber failures in the Sudan wherein it was disclosed that Wilkinson had purchased blade making machines (rollers, presses etc.) from Weyersberg and had brought to London German workers to operate them and supposedly to train the Wilkinson British employees. However the Germans apparently could not speak English so no training was done. Also to fill government contracts for bayonets Wilkinson was basically smuggling in crates (in violation of British tariff and importation laws) of them made by Weyersberg and re-stamped as Wilkinson. There is also some indication in the records of the present WKC Stahl Solingen that their Weyersberg parent company had on-going relations with Wilkinson loaning money, filling contract orders beyond Wilkinson's capacity etc. It is rare for collectors of Wilkinson sabers (or Pillins or Thurkles) to completely disassemble them to view any tang marks (as such would require grinding off a peen). On the Scots pattern 1828 basket hilt the sword is easily disassembled by unscrewing the pommel nut. It should also be noted that the Weyersberg kings head trademark on the tang is VERY small and requires a magnifying glass or jewelers' loupe to see. At a glance it might be mistaken for a rust pit. It would easily be obscured by rust or caked on oxidized grease on the tang of a Wilkinson if someone did expose a saber's tang. I am unable to get better photos of the Weyersberg trademark on my P1828 with my poor equipmen Please share your source for this. None of it surprises me. I have a B. Thurkle 1822P/45 LC that I believe to be by E. & F. Hörster Co., of Solingen. sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/65383/1821p-pattern-canadian-militia-artillery
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Post by squalembrato on Jan 18, 2023 0:52:46 GMT
Here are some of the sources. First a publication by WKC Stahl the present successor to Weyersberg. Note the 1883 entry that they were involved in the founding of Wilkinson and supplied them with sword blades. Second, an 1886 translation of a Weyersberg article concerning the proof test for the swords they make for the English Army. Next an article from the Regimental Rogue website indicating that Wilkinson and other 19th century English swords had German blades despite their trademarks. Lastly, excerpts from the Parliamentary debates about sword and bayonet failures and Wilkinson's shenanigans with German workers and machinery and the bayonet smuggling. You will need to magnify the print on some of these articles.
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Post by treeslicer on Jan 18, 2023 2:02:44 GMT
Here are some of the sources. First a publication by WKC Stahl the present successor to Weyersberg. Note the 1883 entry that they were involved in the founding of Wilkinson and supplied them with sword blades. Second, an 1886 translation of a Weyersberg article concerning the proof test for the swords they make for the English Army. Next an article from the Regimental Rogue website indicating that Wilkinson and other 19th century English swords had German blades despite their trademarks. Lastly, excerpts from the Parliamentary debates about sword and bayonet failures and Wilkinson's shenanigans with German workers and machinery and the bayonet smuggling. You will need to magnify the print on some of these articles. Thanks!!!!
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