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Post by miraculix101 on Dec 13, 2022 15:46:35 GMT
Perhaps a newbie question, but i just looked at some websites and noticed, that the Ninja swords are straight. Shouldnt they be curved with a sori like a katana, which i thought happens when the steels gets hardend in the smithing process, and it bends then with the hardening.
Or are i am completly false with my assumption?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2022 17:26:07 GMT
Some people think the idea is that they are better suited to thrusting. But I think, generally, they are based on the Hollywood idea of ninja, from the 80s. They usually had that sort of sword
Japan used to have similar looking swords early in their history called "Chokuto"
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Dec 13, 2022 18:08:21 GMT
What you probably looked at was Hollywood’s rendition and is not authentic. The truth is no one knows what ninjas used. As they were a secret society it stands to reason that they used nothing special that would attract attention.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Dec 13, 2022 18:09:10 GMT
Because everyone knows that Ninja-to are straight the real Ninjas just have to carry normal swords and nobody recognizes them, even in their Ninja suit. (No, that can't be a Ninja, he doesn't carry a Ninja-to!)
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Post by randomnobody on Dec 13, 2022 18:18:42 GMT
Tricky (and touchy) question with a lot of different answers.
First, one must understand there was never any such thing as a "ninjato" at any point in history. Especially not the straight-bladed style we think of today. It's debatable where this idea comes from, but I've seen a few sources suggest Kabuki theater and the people who amount to stagehands. They were typically clothed in all black, with their faces obscured, and moved scenery etc between parts. It was common knowledge these people were not actors in the show, and thus no need to pay them any mind. Until, of course, one play (I wish I could remember which) which had one of these people suddenly draw a sword and "kill" (to clarify, acting) a character on stage. I've read this as a possible origin for the modern idea of a ninja, but I'm not sure how widely accepted this is.
I may or may not remember reading that, when similar acts followed, the "ninja" would use a straight sword to differentiate them from the rest of the cast. Sort of like how in medieval paintings of the Crusades depicted Europeans with straight, cruciform swords and the Islamic peoples they were battling with curved swords.
Action movies of the 80s seem to have run with the idea of a guy in black with a straight sword, but still no real historic record. More recently, I think it was the Biujinkan or something, suggested that the "real ninja sword" was, in fact, merely a shorter, curved katana inside a longer scabbard, to disguise the actual length of the blade and allow for a quicker-than-expected draw while also being more maneuverable in tight spaces. Cheness' Oniyuri was a replication of this idea.
All that aside, there was a period in Japanese history (Kanbun, I believe?) where straighter swords were preferred, and "mu-zori" (literally "no sori") became popular in some parts.
This is all a separate thing from the aforementioned chokuto, which were essentially Tang dao imported from what is now modern China. Some were made in Japan, but eventually Japan moved on to their own style.
As far as sori and quenching, it's a side-effect, yes, but can also be controlled and even adjusted. One could increase sori by forging in a curve before applying clay and quenching, or reduce sori by forging in a reverse curve, etc.
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Post by Eric Bergeron on Dec 13, 2022 23:51:05 GMT
I have always thought that a ninja would use a Ko-katana as there weapon of choice, it appears to be a normal looking katana like everyone else, but on the draw it is a short 24" blade kept in a standard katana length saya, the shorter draw time meant they could get there blade out faster and catch the others off guard and maybe that could turn the tide in the ninja's favor.
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Post by tweet on Dec 14, 2022 0:41:50 GMT
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Post by Eric Bergeron on Dec 14, 2022 0:56:51 GMT
Nice, where did you find those/buy those?
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Dec 14, 2022 12:50:29 GMT
Ah, tabi boots. Mine are very comfortable and are about like being bare foot, except better. I can’t remember where I got mine, but do an online search for ninja clothing and you’ll come up with a vendor. I was also surprised to see that the Japanese Army during WWII had a similar boot, but not issued to all troops.
This thread just brought back a memory of a few years ago. There was a popular character on YouTube that called himself the Korean Ninja. Perhaps some of you will remember. He had a good following and was popular demonstrating all kinds of martial art abilities as related to supposedly ninjas. He even had private classes that he taught locally. All was going great until the idiot decided to show his ‘true’ ninja sword that had been passed down from father to son for generations. It was nothing more than a common present day ninjato, appearing to be not long at of the box. It took no time at all for people to recognize it for what it was and that ended him branding him as fake. So went the career of the Korean Ninja, out of the window, so to speak.
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Post by El Chingon on Dec 15, 2022 1:53:31 GMT
Ah, tabi boots. Mine are very comfortable and are about like being bare foot, except better. I can’t remember where I got mine, but do an online search for ninja clothing and you’ll come up with a vendor. I was also surprised to see that the Japanese Army during WWII had a similar boot, but not issued to all troops. This thread just brought back a memory of a few years ago. There was a popular character on YouTube that called himself the Korean Ninja. Perhaps some of you will remember. He had a good following and was popular demonstrating all kinds of martial art abilities as related to supposedly ninjas. He even had private classes that he taught locally. All was going great until the idiot decided to show his ‘true’ ninja sword that had been passed down from father to son for generations. It was nothing more than a common present day ninjato, appearing to be not long at of the box. It took no time at all for people to recognize it for what it was and that ended him branding him as fake. So went the career of the Korean Ninja, out of the window, so to speak. I remember him of whom you speak. Chosun Ninja. I'd like to see that sword vid.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Dec 15, 2022 2:18:17 GMT
I remember him of whom you speak. Chosun Ninja. I'd like to see that sword vid. I stand corrected. I believe it was Chosun Ninja, it’s been a while.
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Post by randomnobody on Dec 15, 2022 3:11:35 GMT
I remember Choson Ninja. Looks like half the Google results say Choson and the other half Chosun, whatever. I think I remember someone once saying Choson was a derogatory term for a Korean person, and nobody would call themselves such.
Dude's "real name" was Greg Park, and there's a lot of really ugly history on teh intarwebz...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2022 5:39:54 GMT
I remember Choson Ninja. Looks like half the Google results say Choson and the other half Chosun, whatever. I think I remember someone once saying Choson was a derogatory term for a Korean person, and nobody would call themselves such. Dude's "real name" was Greg Park, and there's a lot of really ugly history on teh intarwebz... I'm interested in this history. I used tk watch the guy before I got into actual martial arts and realized his stuff wasn't any good
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Dec 15, 2022 12:03:39 GMT
It’s Chosun Ninja, although Choson Ninja seems to be used also, and his videos are still up on YouTube. Chosun is a Korean dynasty (1392-1897). His real name is Greg Park, as Meh stated, and he is now in law practice.
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Post by blairbob on Dec 18, 2022 2:59:13 GMT
Hah, i actually remember him
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Post by miraculix101 on Dec 18, 2022 6:08:12 GMT
Thank you gentlemen,
your answers were most helpful for a beginner like me. Regarding the korean Ninja, i dont know if that was what i was asking, but very informative nonetheless.
regards all and a nice sunday
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Dec 18, 2022 8:56:29 GMT
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