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Post by pierogi on Oct 12, 2022 1:55:12 GMT
Hello everyone,
This is my first time posting and I had a few questions regarding a recent purchase.
There was an issue with a sword that I recently purchased that led to the discovery of several smaller issues. This led to a discussion with the manufacturer, which led to a return. They fixed the issue, but then another took its place.
This product cost approx. $2,000.
XXXX – The manufacturer.
I’m looking for insight from the community in how to handle this issue, as I was also somewhat blown-off by the manufacturer.
To elaborate, the sword and scabbard looked amazing, and the sword handled very well, but there was a significant rattle between the sword and sheath. Side to side front to back, hitting the flat sides and the blade inside. I then noted a heavy grind mark on the metal tip of scabbard as well as two cracks. While handling, a metal tooth on the buckle hooked and pulled some skin on my finger. It didn’t draw blood, but still. Another issue on top of several others.
Whatever. I get it. Sometimes a good company lets a few things go and the events of the past couple years haven’t made things easy on anybody. Getting and maintaining good help, distribution, product acquisition, etc.
So, I reach out with a politely worded email to the distributor, who put me in touch with the manufacturer. Both were pleasant and understanding. I sent the sword back, it returned, and there was no longer a rattle. Nice! It looks like they glued some foam down in the scabbard. Other manufacturers do the same. However, when unwrapping the sword and scabbard, the tip of the scabbard just fell off. Closer inspection revealed the leather had come off with the glue.
Again, I like to think I’m understanding, but after spending nearly 2k? I reached out again and was told that’s just how they do things and gluing it back on should fix it. “Thanks, XXXX.”
No apology or anything. Just, ‘fix it on your end, chief. Thanks.’
Is this what is expected in the $1,000 – $2,000 range of swords? Am I just making mountains out of mole hills?
Let me know. I’m a bit agitated, but coming from a background of quality assurance in metal fabrication, this feels unacceptable. I’ve worked on projects in the $100s and insured they went out flawless. The customer is paying for a product, and if we’re advertising it, they will get the best version of that product. If it can’t be crafted to the description, or if more time and resources are needed as well as a price adjustment, then that’s fine, but don’t make me pay for something you can’t deliver on.
But again, I’m new to swords and the community, and I have no problem being humbled. Please, I would like to hear the thoughts of the community.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Oct 12, 2022 2:08:30 GMT
Hi pierogi and welcome to the forum. I personally think that all went not perfectly but ok here. They fixed the bigger problem but for glueing on a chape I see no need to send the sword back again.
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Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Oct 12, 2022 2:10:10 GMT
Rattle in a scabbard is something i myself consider acceptable, reason being, wood is organic, it might fit flawless today but tomorrow when the humidity changes it might be tight or loose ext. BUT. pieces falling off, and sharp edges injuring you? Thats more serious and shouldnt be an issue you have to swallow.
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Post by pierogi on Oct 12, 2022 2:39:12 GMT
Hi pierogi and welcome to the forum. I personally think that all went not perfectly but ok here. They fixed the bigger problem but for glueing on a chape I see no need to send the sword back again. Thank you for the welcome! I agree. I wouldn't send it back for something like that. I'm currently looking for good glue for leather to metal bonding. I also agree things went ok, but 2k for ok?
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Post by pierogi on Oct 12, 2022 2:43:54 GMT
Rattle in a scabbard is something i myself consider acceptable, reason being, wood is organic, it might fit flawless today but tomorrow when the humidity changes it might be tight or loose ext. BUT. pieces falling off, and sharp edges injuring you? Thats more serious and shouldnt be an issue you have to swallow. Thank you! I appreciate the insight. I've looked into scabbard rattle and wood types and there are some things that can't be accounted for when shipping from an arid location to a swamp or to the snowy north. I honestly like the foam insert idea, but on that note, is moisture buildup a concern in that instance? 'Injure' is a strong word. 'Snagged' would be better. lol But annoying nonetheless. And yeah, I laughed when the tip just, fell off.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Oct 12, 2022 3:11:09 GMT
I use epoxy and I glued on scabbard parts myself recently. Falling off glued chapes etc. may have the same reason as rattling, the wo od changing with different humidity.I personally use Vaseline soaked thin cotton stripes against rattling and never had a problem but there are different opinions about the moisture problem. I understand your feelings about those problems with a 2k sword, but I think "that's life".
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Post by Brian Kunz on Oct 12, 2022 3:24:38 GMT
I think for 2k chalking it up to "that's life" isn't acceptable. Yes, there are elements of imperfection when you're purchasing handmade goods. But there are handmade goods made by person(s) that care about the details, and then there are handmade goods made by people that don't care.
For example; my scabbards don't rattle, and I ship all over the world.
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Post by pierogi on Oct 12, 2022 3:48:16 GMT
I use epoxy and I glued on scabbard parts myself recently. Falling off glued chapes etc. may have the same reason as rattling, the wo od changing with different humidity.I personally use Vaseline soaked thin cotton stripes against rattling and never had a problem but there are different opinions about the moisture problem. I understand your feelings about those problems with a 2k sword, but I think "that's life".
There was a part in my brain sighing and saying "that's life." It honestly didn't feel worth the effort. But then I remembered $2,000, and I think now more than ever people are getting away with sliding under standards and bare minimums. It's not the end of the world, and it's still a great sword, and the scabbard does it's job, but if these are what they let slide on the surface, then what are they letting slide when it comes to the structural integrity of the blade? This was marketed as an "heirloom-tier sword," among other things. I don't know though. What do you think? Too good to be true for that price for an "heirloom-tier" sword? I know my writing can come across as stiff and formal, but I promise I'm not being snide. I'm sincerely curious.
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Post by pierogi on Oct 12, 2022 3:52:42 GMT
I think for 2k chalking it up to "that's life" isn't acceptable. Yes, there are elements of imperfection when you're purchasing handmade goods. But there are handmade goods made by person(s) that care about the details, and then there are handmade goods made by people that don't care. For example; my scabbards don't rattle, and I ship all over the world. I agree. I appreciate the rugged and imperfect nature of the handmade. Let's you know a person worked on it and not just some machine. But there's a difference between imperfect character, and poor quality. And I just jumped over to your website. Your scabbards are ridiculous. I ever get a truly custom blade in need of a good fit, I'll put in an order.
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Post by zabazagobo on Oct 12, 2022 4:30:13 GMT
I use epoxy and I glued on scabbard parts myself recently. Falling off glued chapes etc. may have the same reason as rattling, the wo od changing with different humidity.I personally use Vaseline soaked thin cotton stripes against rattling and never had a problem but there are different opinions about the moisture problem. I understand your feelings about those problems with a 2k sword, but I think "that's life".
There was a part in my brain sighing and saying "that's life." It honestly didn't feel worth the effort. But then I remembered $2,000, and I think now more than ever people are getting away with sliding under standards and bare minimums. It's not the end of the world, and it's still a great sword, and the scabbard does it's job, but if these are what they let slide on the surface, then what are they letting slide when it comes to the structural integrity of the blade? This was marketed as an "heirloom-tier sword," among other things. I don't know though. What do you think? Too good to be true for that price for an "heirloom-tier" sword? I know my writing can come across as stiff and formal, but I promise I'm not being snide. I'm sincerely curious. I think that you've been more than fair and that at the price point this is kind of well, unsatisfactory.
When you say "heirloom-tier" that's a bit of a red flag as I know of a few select brands in that price range which make use of that slogan. They are often better left avoided. If you do not wish to publicly disclose the brand/vendor, could you shoot me a message?
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Oct 12, 2022 4:33:40 GMT
If you pay 2k for a production sword you usually get a sword with some gimmicks in blade and fittings but still a production sword with typical production sword problems. I wouldn't expect heirloom quality from such a sword. For 4k and more I would. A bit different with custom makers. Reality not always matches expectations.
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Post by pierogi on Oct 12, 2022 4:48:59 GMT
There was a part in my brain sighing and saying "that's life." It honestly didn't feel worth the effort. But then I remembered $2,000, and I think now more than ever people are getting away with sliding under standards and bare minimums. It's not the end of the world, and it's still a great sword, and the scabbard does it's job, but if these are what they let slide on the surface, then what are they letting slide when it comes to the structural integrity of the blade? This was marketed as an "heirloom-tier sword," among other things. I don't know though. What do you think? Too good to be true for that price for an "heirloom-tier" sword? I know my writing can come across as stiff and formal, but I promise I'm not being snide. I'm sincerely curious. I think that you've been more than fair and that at the price point this is kind of well, unsatisfactory.
When you say "heirloom-tier" that's a bit of a red flag as I know of a few select brands in that price range which make use of that slogan. They are often better left avoided. If you do not wish to publicly disclose the brand/vendor, could you shoot me a message?
I completely agree. I remember back in high-school and seeing those kinds of ads for swords. "Battle-ready" this and that. But these two seemed to be on the high-end, which is why this transaction was such a let down; especially after hearing so many good things about them. And I was in the process of writing a full review. Not a smear page, but something that was fair. I didn't want to be rash in my agitation, so I came here to gain some better insight, and I avoided naming the maker because I didn't want to give a bias one way or the other. But yeah, here's the sword in question. Link
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Post by pierogi on Oct 12, 2022 4:50:13 GMT
If you pay 2k for a production sword you usually get a sword with some gimmicks in blade and fittings but still a production sword with typical production sword problems. I wouldn't expect heirloom quality from such a sword. For 4k and more I would. A bit different with custom makers. Reality not always matches expectations. Good to know. Thank you And from what I gathered, these guys were more on the custom side, but I may have been wrong.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Oct 12, 2022 5:09:27 GMT
As long as the sword is good I'd be happy and epoxy the chape myself. Congrats to a really nice sword!
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Post by pierogi on Oct 12, 2022 5:53:48 GMT
I would like to formally,respectfully request that I be informed of the secret identity of this enigmatic manufacturer.A pm would be delicious. Lol Sure thing LINKIn an attempt to demonstrate goodwill, I wanted to keep names out of this discussion to avoid any bias.
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Post by pierogi on Oct 12, 2022 5:56:04 GMT
As long as the sword is good I'd be happy and epoxy the chape myself. Congrats to a really nice sword! Well I ASSUME the sword is good. I have no experience cutting or testing such things. But thank you!
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Post by pierogi on Oct 12, 2022 15:01:32 GMT
Lol Sure thing LINKIn an attempt to demonstrate goodwill, I wanted to keep names out of this discussion to avoid any bias. I can now understand why. Would you be willing to elaborate?
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Post by pierogi on Oct 12, 2022 20:44:37 GMT
I believe that you made a good decision in being vague about the maker in this particular case. I believe if it was known which manufacturer you were talking about, the posts in response might be more "mild." -Regardless of whether it deserved that pass or not. My personal views toward it are that the flaws seem minimal enough, in the grand picture, that I would not be troubled by it. I have various customs, some in a much higher price range, that have some sort of minimal flaw out of the box in one case or another. That's disheartening to know. I'm not out to mud sling or drag anyone's name, I was just a bit miffed at how it's all transpired. Especially for a first buy and interaction. Just didn't know how things went down in the sword community when it came to this kind of thing.
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Post by pierogi on Oct 12, 2022 21:35:52 GMT
That's disheartening to know. I'm not out to mud sling or drag anyone's name, I was just a bit miffed at how it's all transpired. Especially for a first buy and interaction. Just didn't know how things went down in the sword community when it came to this kind of thing. Not so much that someone might see it as mud-slinging, just that they are defensive and protective of their favorite high-end production brand/makers even when something is done poorly. I could just see the responses in this thread going a little different if they knew which sword it was. That's all, lol. My 2 cents. You did nothing wrong of course. lol Good to know Thanks for shootin' straight with me
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Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Oct 12, 2022 23:38:43 GMT
Rattle in a scabbard is something i myself consider acceptable, reason being, wood is organic, it might fit flawless today but tomorrow when the humidity changes it might be tight or loose ext. BUT. pieces falling off, and sharp edges injuring you? Thats more serious and shouldnt be an issue you have to swallow. Thank you! I appreciate the insight. I've looked into scabbard rattle and wood types and there are some things that can't be accounted for when shipping from an arid location to a swamp or to the snowy north. I honestly like the foam insert idea, but on that note, is moisture buildup a concern in that instance? 'Injure' is a strong word. 'Snagged' would be better. lol But annoying nonetheless. And yeah, I laughed when the tip just, fell off. Absolutely, Your not supposed to store a sword in it's scabbard. I know a lot of people do and get away with it, but your not supposed to.
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