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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2022 22:47:13 GMT
Weren't you in the army? Were you stationed in the middle East? You are familiar with all this aren't you? 1. Yes, 22 years 2. Yes , 6 combat tours: 2 in Iraq, 1 Afghanistan, 2 Kosovo/Bosnia, Panama 89 3. Yes. I know a lot of things I wish I didn't. One thing I can say for certain is that the Australian Army never consulted me about this knife design, so I guess my opinion doesn't really matter at the end of the day. Fair enough. If they asked any of us, they would likely be issuing sabers again, at the very least haha. Edit: I didn't mean what I said as a jab, by the way. I just meant that you were probably stationed during the time that this self defense system would have relivant. |
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Post by freq on Nov 30, 2022 5:56:11 GMT
1. Yes, 22 years 2. Yes , 6 combat tours: 2 in Iraq, 1 Afghanistan, 2 Kosovo/Bosnia, Panama 89 3. Yes. I know a lot of things I wish I didn't. One thing I can say for certain is that the Australian Army never consulted me about this knife design, so I guess my opinion doesn't really matter at the end of the day. Fair enough. If they asked any of us, they would likely be issuing sabers again, at the very least haha. Edit: I didn't mean what I said as a jab, by the way. I just meant that you were probably stationed during the time that this self defense system would have relivant. sabers! , na not aussie enough. would be flambrge swords all round, then could be "thats not a sword" never been in military (not my thing but have studied and taught martial arts for 40 years, with some of the worlds best) and have to say i agree that this has been a victim of style over function, have seen/trained with guys who could cut you to pieces with a blade and think they would struggle to use this effectively, think it would get hung up trying to get it in position dont see why they dont train more with this www.awm.gov.au/collection/C1194234 since they can still get them and could do mad damage with one
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2022 6:22:35 GMT
Fair enough. If they asked any of us, they would likely be issuing sabers again, at the very least haha. Edit: I didn't mean what I said as a jab, by the way. I just meant that you were probably stationed during the time that this self defense system would have relivant. sabers! , na not aussie enough. would be flambrge swords all round, then could be "thats not a sword" never been in military (not my thing but have studied and taught martial arts for 40 years, with some of the worlds best) and have to say i agree that this has been a victim of style over function, have seen/trained with guys who could cut you to pieces with a blade and think they would struggle to use this effectively, think it would get hung up trying to get it in position dont see why they dont train more with this www.awm.gov.au/collection/C1194234 since they can still get them and could do mad damage with one
Man, if only a modern military had the balls to give people flamberge swords. Heck, I'd even take tactical gladiuses |
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Post by RufusScorpius on Nov 30, 2022 10:46:30 GMT
See, this is probably why the ADF didn't ask us for advice. We would spend 5 years arguing whether a Saber or katana was better, then spend the next 8 years debating which steel to use. Meanwhile, the ADF popped over to the local mall and bought a bunch of zombie killers.....
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2022 16:35:28 GMT
See, this is probably why the ADF didn't ask us for advice. We would spend 5 years arguing whether a Saber or katana was better, then spend the next 8 years debating which steel to use. Meanwhile, the ADF popped over to the local mall and bought a bunch of zombie killers..... Ugh, with green handles and fake "zombie" blood all over it. We would have wished we settled for literally any other thing that was mentioned |
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seth
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Post by seth on Nov 30, 2022 18:24:09 GMT
I like the design, but I'm a sucker for tacticool stuff. I am curious to see how they train with it in their combatives program.
It certainly looks like a dedicated "get off me" knife versus the utility knife. I think most mil folks add personal knives to their kit if they can (at least in the US). Maybe the Aussies thought these type of knives are going to show up on our soldiers anyway so we might as well train with them.
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Post by RufusScorpius on Nov 30, 2022 18:51:27 GMT
I like the design, but I'm a sucker for tacticool stuff. I am curious to see how they train with it in their combatives program. It certainly looks like a dedicated "get off me" knife versus the utility knife. I think most mil folks add personal knives to their kit if they can (at least in the US). Maybe the Aussies thought these type of knives are going to show up on our soldiers anyway so we might as well train with them. Since when has military procurement, in any culture at any point in history, ever considered what soldiers wanted? Its about getting the cheapest thing in bulk quantity that will do the job at a minimum acceptable level. |
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Post by howler on Nov 30, 2022 20:30:20 GMT
For military, I'd think utility would be a big consideration, and this dagger lacks much of that. Soldiers, if they indeed have a choice, will often factor in weight (the ole' "ounces = pounds, pounds = pain).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2022 21:41:41 GMT
This was the peak evolution of military knives, everything since, was a downward spiral  |
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seth
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Post by seth on Nov 30, 2022 21:48:11 GMT
I like the design, but I'm a sucker for tacticool stuff. I am curious to see how they train with it in their combatives program. It certainly looks like a dedicated "get off me" knife versus the utility knife. I think most mil folks add personal knives to their kit if they can (at least in the US). Maybe the Aussies thought these type of knives are going to show up on our soldiers anyway so we might as well train with them. Since when has military procurement, in any culture at any point in history, ever considered what soldiers wanted? Its about getting the cheapest thing in bulk quantity that will do the job at a minimum acceptable level. Too true. That is why the BX/PX is full of the better commercially made versions of issue items. |
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Dec 1, 2022 6:01:53 GMT
I like the design, but I'm a sucker for tacticool stuff. I am curious to see how they train with it in their combatives program. It certainly looks like a dedicated "get off me" knife versus the utility knife. I think most mil folks add personal knives to their kit if they can (at least in the US). Maybe the Aussies thought these type of knives are going to show up on our soldiers anyway so we might as well train with them. Since when has military procurement, in any culture at any point in history, ever considered what soldiers wanted? Its about getting the cheapest thing in bulk quantity that will do the job at a minimum acceptable level. You guys' militaries have things?  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2022 0:34:23 GMT
I know you guys only like HEMA and history guys, but here is an Ex Police officers review on a similar knife
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Post by howler on Dec 7, 2022 1:54:59 GMT
I know you guys only like HEMA and history guys, but here is an Ex Police officers review on a similar knife Nice video on the subject, Trap, and pretty much says it all regarding this knife type. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2022 2:43:30 GMT
I know you guys only like HEMA and history guys, but here is an Ex Police officers review on a similar knife Nice video on the subject, Trap, and pretty much says it all regarding this knife type. Yea I figured he could explain it better than I can, and that maybe people here would enjoy the tests he does. Not saying his opinion is be all end all, but it's an enlightening video non the less, to some degree or another |
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Post by freq on Dec 8, 2022 11:23:23 GMT
cool vid , good points, but still not sold on idea, also have a problem with "self defense" knives, if your a attacked in normal life and pull out a knife your no longer defending your attacking, different thing for military personnel, here in vic aus you could be arrested just for carrying that before you even used it to "defend" yourself, you can create distance with easier to carry items of everyday objects eg car keys/pen hook finger through keyring and flail someone with them, jab a pen at someone, same effect and has other use you can start your car open your door write a note lol , not saying that this style of knife has no uses just that it only has one use, stabbing, ergo not really useful if you had to rely on it in a survival scenario, after all guns run out of ammo, people get lost you might need to process wood for fire or a spear cant do that if the only thing you have hasnt got an edge to do so or a shape conducive to doing so
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Post by freq on Dec 8, 2022 11:24:35 GMT
This was the peak evolution of military knives, everything since, was a downward spiral yep that'd back em up |
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Post by freq on Dec 20, 2022 10:48:01 GMT
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Post by RufusScorpius on Dec 22, 2022 19:16:19 GMT
I'm not sold on the idea even after all this discussion. Again, in a MILITARY context, there's not much use for a one-trick pony knife. Great, if you're in that particular situation, in that particular posture, with that particular set of circumstances, then the knife will work. But what about the rest of the 250,000 soldiers that will go 20 years and never once encounter a situation that particular? There's nothing that ADF knife does that's in any way better than a standard issue Kabar or Mark 3 (or similar design), in fact, it's far more limited.
There was nothing in the video posted that any of the other knives couldn't do equally well. The only advantage the ADF dagger has is concealed carry- and if you think a soldier in uniform on the battlefield doesn't already have a knife along with the rifle and grenades clearly strapped to his body... really? Every participant on the battlefield knows that it would be monumentally stupid NOT to have at least one knife on you while in a military engagement, and the assumption is everybody is already armed to the teeth. Concealed carry on a soldier is a non-starter when it comes to weapon selection.
The ADF knife seems to be a solution looking for a problem.
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Post by howler on Dec 22, 2022 20:37:26 GMT
I'm not sold on the idea even after all this discussion. Again, in a MILITARY context, there's not much use for a one-trick pony knife. Great, if you're in that particular situation, in that particular posture, with that particular set of circumstances, then the knife will work. But what about the rest of the 250,000 soldiers that will go 20 years and never once encounter a situation that particular? There's nothing that ADF knife does that's in any way better than a standard issue Kabar or Mark 3 (or similar design), in fact, it's far more limited. There was nothing in the video posted that any of the other knives couldn't do equally well. The only advantage the ADF dagger has is concealed carry- and if you think a soldier in uniform on the battlefield doesn't already have a knife along with the rifle and grenades clearly strapped to his body... really? Every participant on the battlefield knows that it would be monumentally stupid NOT to have at least one knife on you while in a military engagement, and the assumption is everybody is already armed to the teeth. Concealed carry on a soldier is a non-starter when it comes to weapon selection. The ADF knife seems to be a solution looking for a problem. For soldiers, I have to agree, too one dimensional & lacking utility. This seems to work best for discreet edc by citizens or a light weight option for police/security. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2022 23:22:44 GMT
I'm not sold on the idea even after all this discussion. Again, in a MILITARY context, there's not much use for a one-trick pony knife. Great, if you're in that particular situation, in that particular posture, with that particular set of circumstances, then the knife will work. But what about the rest of the 250,000 soldiers that will go 20 years and never once encounter a situation that particular? There's nothing that ADF knife does that's in any way better than a standard issue Kabar or Mark 3 (or similar design), in fact, it's far more limited. There was nothing in the video posted that any of the other knives couldn't do equally well. The only advantage the ADF dagger has is concealed carry- and if you think a soldier in uniform on the battlefield doesn't already have a knife along with the rifle and grenades clearly strapped to his body... really? Every participant on the battlefield knows that it would be monumentally stupid NOT to have at least one knife on you while in a military engagement, and the assumption is everybody is already armed to the teeth. Concealed carry on a soldier is a non-starter when it comes to weapon selection. The ADF knife seems to be a solution looking for a problem. For soldiers, I have to agree, too one dimensional & lacking utility. This seems to work best for discreet edc by citizens or a light weight option for police/security. Yea agreed, it does seem better suited to police than military, tbh. But then again, many modern militaries seem to function as police units when occupying countries. I think the standard idea of military combat is just changing. It's more about occupying and policing these days rather than full scale army vs army. I'm willing to bet an army is more likely to be battling their own citizens and policing them than fighting other armies |
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Things have changed!