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Post by glendon on Aug 19, 2022 1:42:31 GMT
Howdy, folks!
Evidently my Google-Fu is weak, but I cannot discover when the three-bar hilt originated. Anyone knowledgable wish to whack this idiot on the head with some cold facts?
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Aug 19, 2022 6:48:33 GMT
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Post by glendon on Aug 20, 2022 2:26:08 GMT
I should have been more precise. I was wondering when this type first appeared: This is from a repro Ames 1840. (Not the grip, just the brass). I did this to it: But I am curious if it could pass for a hanger from an earlier period. This isn't for strict re-enactment, but rather pirate theater, and some good back-yard bottle thumping.
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Post by glendon on Aug 20, 2022 2:42:10 GMT
"Do you mean exactly the three bar saber hilt like the French ANIX has, ..." (See previous post.) But thanks for that link, it was very informative! Some of us still love picture books...
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pgandy
Moderator
Senior Forumite
Posts: 10,296
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Post by pgandy on Aug 20, 2022 13:03:31 GMT
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Aug 20, 2022 13:22:40 GMT
I know the 1751p Brit. Inf. Hanger because Windlass used it as pattern for their Windlass English Cutlass, which I own. The Windlass has a bizarre tiny hilt btw, just big enough for children's hands. I know that some hangers were used with the little finger out of the hilt but that's very uncomfy too with this hilt. It appears in the latest Pirates of the Caribbean movie in the fight with the Brits at the beginning of the film. So it would make a plausible hanger for mid 18th Century. www.antique-swords.com/H69-1751P-British-Infantry-Huntingdon-Militia-US-War-Indepedence.htmlOf course there could be an earlier sword with this three bar hilt which I don't know.
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Post by glendon on Aug 20, 2022 13:52:22 GMT
If that sword pictured above was mine, I’d take a saw to it and remove the visible threaded stud in the pommel. Then polish the remainder making it flush with the nut. Just a thought. Possibly replace the nut all together with something similar to these... Yes, Sir: That is indeed my intention, after I tweak the grip a bit. For now, it keeps it easy to start the threading process between builds.
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Post by glendon on Aug 20, 2022 14:04:22 GMT
I know the 1751p Brit. Inf. Hanger because Windlass used it as pattern for their Windlass English Cutlass, which I own. The Windlass has a bizarre tiny hilt btw, just big enough for children's hands. I know that some hangers were used with the little finger out of the hilt but that's very uncomfy too with this hilt. It appears in the latest Pirates of the Caribbean movie in the fight with the Brits at the beginning of the film. So it would make a plausible hanger for mid 18th Century. www.antique-swords.com/H69-1751P-British-Infantry-Huntingdon-Militia-US-War-Indepedence.htmlOf course there could be an earlier sword with this three bar hilt which I don't know. Thanks again! I do so enjoy the wealth of information provided by the forum. And "plausible" is what I'm looking for: I'm going to (with luck) sell this sword as a theater prop, in order to further finance the "more-historically-accurate" ale-house dagger I'm building. Proust!
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Post by Mark Millman on Aug 20, 2022 14:43:32 GMT
Dear glendon, . . . I am curious if it could pass for a hanger from an earlier period. This isn't for strict re-enactment, but rather pirate theater, and some good back-yard bottle thumping. As AndiTheBarvarian says, it looks sort of like a Pattern 1751 British hanger, which might work for, say, Jean Lafitte's crew. (Now that I think about it, Lafitte's pirate days come late enough--starting between 1810 and 1812--that he and his crew could conceivably have used French Revolutionary and Napoleonic-era weapons.) It really doesn't look like anything from the Golden Age of Piracy. Perhaps more important for your purposes, the guard is so distinctively recognizable as the same type used on the U.S. M1840 and M1861 cavalry sabers (with minor variations in the latter case; the first appearance of very nearly this exact style of guard is on the pipe-backed French M1816 light-cavalry saber, the predecessor of the more famous M1822), that I think anybody familiar with the American Civil War won't be able to ignore it. It may help to lacquer, paint, or otherwise blacken the guard to make it less obvious. These old myArmoury threads on antiquing brass may help. Do note that the process described can give inconsistent results, as its success seems to depend on the exact formulation of the brass alloy. But even if you can't get the guard black, you may be able to darken it enough to match the treatment you've given the blade. You might also consider removing one or both of the side branches. I hope this proves helpful. Best, Mark Millman
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Post by glendon on Aug 20, 2022 23:56:51 GMT
Dear glendon, . . . I am curious if it could pass for a hanger from an earlier period. This isn't for strict re-enactment, but rather pirate theater, and some good back-yard bottle thumping. As AndiTheBarvarian says, it looks sort of like a Pattern 1751 British hanger, which might work for, say, Jean Lafitte's crew. (Now that I think about it, Lafitte's pirate days come late enough--starting between 1810 and 1812--that he and his crew could conceivably have used French Revolutionary and Napoleonic-era weapons.) It really doesn't look like anything from the Golden Age of Piracy. Perhaps more important for your purposes, the guard is so distinctively recognizable as the same type used on the U.S. M1840 and M1861 cavalry sabers (with minor variations in the latter case; the first appearance of very nearly this exact style of guard is on the pipe-backed French M1816 light-cavalry saber, the predecessor of the more famous M1822), that I think anybody familiar with the American Civil War won't be able to ignore it. It may help to lacquer, paint, or otherwise blacken the guard to make it less obvious. These old myArmoury threads on antiquing brass may help. Do note that the process described can give inconsistent results, as its success seems to depend on the exact formulation of the brass alloy. But even if you can't get the guard black, you may be able to darken it enough to match the treatment you've given the blade. You might also consider removing one or both of the side branches. I hope this proves helpful. Best, Mark Millman Thank you for the input! Its all a stretch, but theater allows a certain lattitude (or lassitude). Nah, I'll keep the hilt intact, and instead invent a good story around Jean Lafitte (good observation, by the way). Cheers!
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Post by Mark Millman on Aug 21, 2022 15:08:31 GMT
Dear glendon,
You're very welcome. I'm happy to be able to help.
Best,
Mark Millman
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